User talk:Carolus

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Public Domain Page (Canada)

Hi Carolus. I'm looking at this section of the public domain page. I'm just wondering what the source of that information is. I think that unpublished works of an author who died between 1949 and 1999 are protected until December 31st, 2049. Unpublished works of an author who died after 1998 are protected from the death of that author + 50 years, if memory serves. I'm bringing this up because there is a slight conflict between the Canadian copyright page and the public domain page. Respectfully yours, Emery 18:11, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

The Canadian IP Office gives a nice summary here - which is basically what I copied onto our public domain page. Carolus 21:28, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Very strange, I'm working from the Canadian Copyright Act itself and it says differently, believe it or not! I have a book on Canadian Copyright book published in 1992 that confirms what I said above, but a lot has changed since then. Perhaps my copy of the Act is outdated, though it shouldn't be. Respectfully, Emery 22:06, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

I'll go over and look at the law itself when I have some time later on this evening. It's not impossible that the Canadian IP office got it wrong. On the other hand, they cold be basing their interpretation on a court decision I am unaware of. You're doing an absolutely fantastic job, BTW. It's great to have someone to help with this issue. Carolus 22:12, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Sure, that would be a great help. Just let me know what you decide. I'm not sure what issue I'm doing any sort of fantastic job at; I really just do menial things here and there :)... You, P.Davydov and KGill are the real workhorses here! Respectfully, Emery 01:46, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

Hi Carolus. I meant to let you know that I finished the outline of the Canadian page here. Is anything that you think I should add? Respectfully, Emery 23:57, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

Thank you very much, Emery. I hope you weren't one of those folks blocking the Brooklyn Bridge because the copyright office was down for maintenance! :) At any rate, I will look it over when I have a chance. I really would like Feldmahler to have a look at it also. Carolus 00:04, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

Thank you Carolus, let me know whenever you have the chance to take a look. Luckily, Canadian copyright is much less complex than United States copyright; but it still has some subtleties. According to the Act, for example, the term of copyright for published work is actually the date of the authors death plus exactly 50 years. If an author died on October 14th, 1970, the copyright would last until October 14th, 2020. I think there was an interesting court case in the late 1980's involving something with that, but I can't remember the name right now; it's been a while since I've looked over copyright law cases. I'll do some digging tomorrow to see if I can find the case for secondary reference on the Canadian copyright page. Respectfully, Emery 02:28, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

Emery, I don't think that exact 50 years applies any longer. Section 6 of the law - the one dealing with term of copyright - states: "The term for which copyright shall subsist shall, except as otherwise expressly provided by this Act, be the life of the author, the remainder of the calendar year in which the author dies, and a period of fifty years following the end of that calendar year." Note the clause "the remainder of the calendar year in which the author dies", which takes things to the end of the calendar year (like almost every other copyright law). Carolus 01:59, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Hi Carolus. I did some more research into this, and you are right. The copy of the Act that I was using was from a book that was published in 1992. I think it's possible that the publishers used an outdated version of the Copyright Act, because I think this particular aspect of the law was changed before then. Respectfully your, Emery 21:14, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Hi Carolus. I just want to let you know that our draft for the Canadian page is now finished. I don't think I have much more to add unless you want to include a section of exploitation, violation, or litigation. I don't think they are really necessary for this page; we didn't really discuss it too much on the United States page either. All of your comments, as usual, are appreciated very much. Respectfully yours, Emery 19:59, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

3 Morceaux, Op.1 (Saint-Saëns, Camille)

Hi Carolus, it's stupid that I can not upload the sheets - I used an edition from 2006. Even if I wanted to create a typeset, I do not know what additives are by the editor :-{ --Ralph Theo Misch 22:42, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

Annoying, I know. I'm a little surprised we don't have the first edition available. Carolus 00:23, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
In fact. The same applies to Bizet's 'Trois esquisses musicales' Op.33 - irresistibly pieces! But I have an idea ... --Ralph Theo Misch 23:45, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
It could be that I have found the first edition. Reprinted in 'Organ Music for Manuals only' (see here). But the publisher does not reveal his sources. Eric Schissel says, Op.1 was published together with Op.8 (Paris: E. Girod). But I can not identify any compelling similarities in the printed image. Have an idea? The first consequence is that I had to make a new recording. The older version can therefore be deleted. Thank you! --Ralph Theo Misch 22:55, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
Hi, here's the listing in the SS catalogue on Internet Archive. Apparently published in 1858, probably by Girod (which was absorbed by Fromont in the 1890s). The score reprinted in the Dover volume looks as if it could be the first edition, from the engraving. Definitely pre-1900 French. Carolus 00:26, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
Many thanks! - Found and downloaded. I'll have a look next day. For now I'm too tired.... --Ralph Theo Misch 00:40, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
Hi Carolus, yes - according to the catalogue the first edition is by Fromont (Girod, respectively). But meanwhile, I have a little look around at the French publishers of the time: Our issue is probably not the first edition. I think it is rather a just a little younger publication by Durand (his principal publisher). But I didn't change anything so far. --Ralph Theo Misch 22:34, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
A similar case: 3 Esquisses musicales, Op.33 (Bizet, Georges). Attached a nice live recording of the Caprice at Youtube :) --Ralph Theo Misch 23:33, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

Really enjoyed the harmonium performance, BTW. I've never heard the instrument sound this good. Carolus 01:00, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Since I've heard that recording, I tried desperately to get the sheets (and would also like to have a harmonium by Mustel). --Ralph Theo Misch 18:35, 3 March 2012 (EST) BTW: The last server upgrade (or whatever it was) was worth it.
Definitely faster. Did you see the new feature on the discussion section of each page? It's now like a forum. Carolus 18:45, 3 March 2012 (EST)
That everything goes faster, I immediately noticed. The new discussion feature I need to have a look at more closely. But it looks promising! --Ralph Theo Misch 19:07, 3 March 2012 (EST)
Meanwhile, this site is so familiar to me, that I can hardly put myself in a position of an outsider. Again and again I am amazed at what problems arise even with intelligent and internet experienced people about IMSLP (my English :{ I hope you know what I mean ...) --Ralph Theo Misch 19:33, 3 March 2012 (EST)
I'm just about to try out the new discussion feature ... --Ralph Theo Misch 18:09, 4 March 2012 (EST)


Hi Carolus, I moved "Grundrichtiger Unterricht der musikalischen Kunst (Speer, Georg Daniel)" to "Sonatas for 2 Violas and Continuo (Speer, Georg Daniel)", but something is going wrong. (The first titel refers to an educational work and is a bit misleading.) Can you please fix it? Notenschreiber 06:48, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

I'll take a look. Thanks, Carolus 00:23, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

May I remind you to my problem with the Speer Sonatas? They have vanished from the composer page, perhaps because I didn´t add the composer name (in brackets) to the new name after moving from the old name. I thougth this would happen automatically.Notenschreiber 18:46, 4 March 2012 (EST)

Hi Carolus, have added all files for the Mass, a bit of a jumble. Have merged all vocal scores together. Regarding the Organ Concerto no.1, I have tried to upload a new file for movement 3, but the changes are not showing. --Steve12 15:18, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

You won't see the changes in your browser until the page cache updates (which can take a few days). The file download will be the new version, however. Carolus 00:23, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

Peter Armstrong

Audio of My works (re BMI)

Hi Carolus. Please check my Talk and your email. Thanks. Peter M. Armstrong 01:03, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

I'll be by later. Pretty heavy WIMA tagging tonight. Carolus 01:20, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

Did my email today called "BMI negotiations" reach you? (I checked its copy-to-me box, but got nothing.) MORE URGENTLY: do I risk legal/financial harm, either to myself or to any potential downloader, if I do not disable downloading -- or even remove my files -- until this issue with BMI is settled?! Peter M. Armstrong 02:08, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

I haven't been to that e-mail acct. yet today. As long as you have used the performance restricted license, I seriously doubt it. With respect to this issue - BMI (and ASCAP) are responsible for the licensing of public and broadcast performances of copyrighted works. How copies of those works, whether scores or sound files, are distributed (either the 'old-fashioned' way via printed copies and CDs available for sale in a brick-and-mortar store, or via free distribution online) should make no difference in their licensing. All legitimately copyrighted works on this site are available here with the permission and blessing of the copyright owners (which is you, in the case of your own works). I got this spiel from ASCAP when I actually talked with them a few months ago expressing shock that these scores were available for free - we were missing out on a "fortune" for not selling printed copies! Last I checked, neither ASCAP nor BMI were printing and selling scores. It's really somewhat amusing as I have worked for quite some time at printing and selling scores, so I actually know something about what is involved! I'll be most interested in your e-mail, no doubt. Ugh! Carolus 02:20, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

But I mean now, while my audio licenses are still not performance-restricted. Should we either take those files down OR convert to that license right away. And in the latter case, would I be free ultimately -- i.e., if quit from BMI -- to restore the original by-nc-nd licenses? (Oh, here's an Ugh! for you too.) Peter M. Armstrong 15:36, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

Hi Peter, Despite my leaving messages there, no one at BMI seems to want to waste their time to talk about the issue. I discussed this matter with Feldmahler today and we are fairly confident that any MIDI files of yours do not qualify as 'broadcast performances' as they are simply performance instructions. If BMI is claiming IMSLP and/or you owe them royalties on "on-demand broadcast performances" of MP3s of your own work (of which you are the copyright owner), we'll take down the MP3s until they come to their senses. Carolus 00:54, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

I easily can, if you think we'd be better off, replace all MP3 files (except 'Additudes!') with the original MIDs. Peter M. Armstrong 01:52, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Hi again! My 71-year-old lungs, already restricted, want out of destined eternal uncertainty re BMI. So:

  • I have uploaded MIDI files to be invoked instead of the MP3s -- Surname, S-Mode, Rulebrit -- for non-Performance audio. (But just changing "|file.mp3" to "|file.mid" fails to effect their substitution. Please help.)
You can't just change a file name - or rather you shouldn't as it creates orphan files which are floating in the system and difficult to find. You really need to use the upload button on the work page, unless your replacing the file with another of the same exact type (MIDI by MIDI, PDF by PDF, etc.)
But I did use the Upload link, from each item's Work page, only then afterwards changing the filename. (???) Peter M. Armstrong 10:31, 5 March 2012 (EST)
  • Additudes has no MIDI source at all. Can its MP3 invocations be just commented out for the time being?
I have to delete them, unfortunately. These can be added back - or even restored - if things get resolved.
Ok. Peter M. Armstrong 10:31, 5 March 2012 (EST)
  • I have also disabled the links, up under "Recordings", to Krikos and Traverse MP3s, leaving only their link text. (I'm searching now for software that will convert their MP3s to MIDI.)
I'll look at what you did here.
The conversion -- I mean here at home, in order later to upload MIDs. Those audios are actual performances, you know, not just digital mockups. The links targeted them on my website. Peter M. Armstrong 10:31, 5 March 2012 (EST)
  • Once the "Performances" block is thus free of all my works, I intend to email Ralph Jackson, "All performance audio of my works is removed".
  • ...and then to follow up via registered surface-mail with, "Please terminate my association with BMI at the earliest possible date, and inform me now of that date".
  • Unless, of course, you have persuasive objections. Any thoughts otherwise? Cheers! Peter M. Armstrong 21:28, 4 March 2012 (EST)
I'll will check through your catalog tonight. Once we've taken care of any cause for potential absurdity on BMI's part, you should e-mail Ralph as you mention. After this, I would wait for a response before sending the letter of membership termination. You're not the only BMI member on the site, so this is a pretty big issue. Frederick Rzewski in particular has numerous works here - complete with recordings. We really need to resolve the issue with BMI - which should be possible to do. BTW, I have not received anything resembling a threat or takedown notice from BMI, so I really have to wonder what they are thinking here. It seems to me if they were sufficiently incensed, we'd be getting a DMCA request. Not a peep - which is the frustrating part. Carolus 22:46, 4 March 2012 (EST)
Yagotta deal -- I'll sit tight after the email. Meanwhile, note that I've changed (for now) Dapper's and Katikaze's audio-file names from "MIDI-Sequenced Performance" to "MIDI-sequenced mock-up". Peter M. Armstrong 12:47, 5 March 2012 (EST)

I just re-uploaded those 3 MID files, successfully. What worked was doing this via "Add File" under Performances on the Work's main screen -- not as before via "Upload file" on the sidebar. So, all my works' audio files are now MIDI. But I find I can stream these -- which I thought should be impossible ("This file cannot be streamed"). If you'll clarify, I'll know how to word my email to Jackson. (BTW, the "cannot" message doesn't appear yet with Surname, S-Mode, Rulebrit -- the items uploaded today.) Peter M. Armstrong 10:50, 7 March 2012 (EST)

Hi C. Under my top-page header "Miscellaneous Information" is the text "Pre-compositional Algorithms". I want to make that text the visible link to a file, "algodev.pdf", just uploaded via "Upload file". How does one do this? Peter M. Armstrong 15:20, 7 March 2012 (EST)

You should only use the "Upload file" link to upload non-PDFs as a general rule. It might be best if the deep-link was to a file hosted elsewhere. There shouldn't be any problem linking to audio performances hosted elsewhere - unless BMI is making a claim that you owe them for 'broadcast performances' of your own works hosted on your own website (which is really quite absurd). Linking to an external site is not a copyright violation according to a fairly recent Federal court decision. They have no case claiming that IMSLP owes them payment for linking to audio files on your site. Only the owner of the hosting site is responsible. Carolus 23:29, 7 March 2012 (EST)

Ok! I've re-linked my offsite MP3s (even Additudes!), linked from offsite as well the "Algorithms" PDF, and they're all working dory-hunky! But I still wonder: Given potential heat from BMI, is it really OK that all these MID files that "cannot be streamed", I can stream? (At least, I'm not seeing non-MP3 behavior in their link response.) Peter M. Armstrong 13:00, 8 March 2012 (EST)

I see. From a legal perspective MIDI files - regardless of whether they stream or not - are more like scores insofar as they are actually a set of instructions (to a machine in this case). The "performer" with a MIDI file is the end user's computer, so any performance is taking place away from IMSLP's server. A private performance to an audience of one does not qualify for the collection of performance or broadcast royalties. Carolus 14:51, 8 March 2012 (EST)

Aha. So, my email to R.J. is about to say, "All public-performance audio of my works is removed from my IMSLP page". (How zat grab ya?) Peter M. Armstrong 15:43, 8 March 2012 (EST)

That sounds exactly correct. They are now indicating that they might actually talk to me sometime soon. I'm not planning on holding my breath or anything, though! Carolus 15:47, 8 March 2012 (EST)

Done! I Cc'd you. In case you forget and hold your breath, here are a couple oxygen atoms [_,_]. Peter M. Armstrong 16:05, 8 March 2012 (EST)

Hi Carolus. My "External links" content is now what I'd like it to be, if I understand correctly its status re MP3s. Wanna peek? Thanks. Peter M. Armstrong 15:44, 12 March 2012 (EDT)

Your composer page looks great. I might even recommend it as an example to other composers who ask how to do their own. Carolus 19:44, 12 March 2012 (EDT)

Kühle -- thanks! (I was a Linux sys-admin for the Fed.) At this point I'm mainly waiting for RJ's email reply. Is there a reason not to terminate...? Peter M. Armstrong 10:09, 14 March 2012 (EDT)

The only reason I can think of you might not wish to terminate would be if you are getting a significant portion of your income from performance royalties. The trade-off with maximizing performance income would appear to be much less general availability of your works. Interestingly, some European performing rights societies are now accepting the more restrictive versions of the Creative Commons licenses. The attorneys who are running both ASCAP and BMI seem extremely hostile to these licenses, and to the concept of free distribution in general. Not sure where the disconnect is here. The strangest conversation I had was with a person at ASCAP who was chiding us for making the scores available for free - insisting that we're missing out on an opportunity to rake in billions by printing and selling titles. I tried to explain that it doesn't really work that way any more - not in the way it used to 50 years ago. Honestly, that way didn't work so well 50 years ago either. Carolus 16:41, 14 March 2012 (EDT)

Thanks. Unless my calculator is kaput, my royalties over these 21 years have totaled precisely 25 dollars. So, I think l'll draft that letter now. Peter M. Armstrong 18:38, 14 March 2012 (EDT) Done, and just now sent by registered mail! Peter M. Armstrong 13:04, 15 March 2012 (EDT)

Re that chiding ASCAP chap: did you ask him if he knows what a library is? Peter M. Armstrong 10:07, 15 March 2012 (EDT)

In case it could avert a wrath worse than RJ's usual, I've taken down nearly all my "Recordings" links for now. Sorry for the paranoia (my specialty). Peter M. Armstrong 16:00, 17 March 2012 (EDT)

RJ just responded. My current BMI membership period ends this coming Dec 31. I must send my termination letter yet again, between Jul 1 and Oct 30. So, will do. Peter M. Armstrong 20:10, 20 March 2012 (EDT)

I'd like to see more clearly -- via someone else's setup -- how and to what extent BMI does exercise its talons. Consider Rzewski's page: 25 "Performer" work pages hosting in total maybe 100 recordings, all MP3s with by-nc-nd licenses and some entity's (BMI's?) gracious permission to post on these terms. What's the "deal" here? (If an answer isn't flatly not my business.) Secondly, what is the BMI-asserted status of IMSLP-External-link-posted MP3s on a composer's personal website? I.e., are these vulnerable? (I don't wonder whether BMI's stance is absurd; I just want a better idea when -- over what -- they tend to make trouble.) Peter M. Armstrong 17:22, 21 March 2012 (EDT)

Rzewski is one of the big reasons I have repeatedly attempted to contact BMI over the last several months - to very little response. Those recordings have been on the WIMA site for years, so there's a certain advantage of 'adverse recourse' in play here. (A court's possible reasoning being: If they [BMI] haven't done anything about it for a decade or more, why should we bother addressing this now?) BMI's legal position is questionable at best. The thing to remember about links is this (as it stands now - the infamous SOPA legislation would have even made linking illegal): links - even if it is a link to an open-and-shut infringement - are not infringements in and of themselves. Carolus 17:36, 21 March 2012 (EDT)
So could BMI, once "tipped off" by an IMSLP External link, attack me for having those MP3s on my personal site? Peter M. Armstrong 18:07, 21 March 2012 (EDT)
Unlikely. If they actually tried to sue a composer for making audio MP3s of his own music available on his own website, it could very quickly turn into a total media circus making them look like some of the worst idiots on the planet - and that would be if they had a semblance of a legal argument for doing it, which they don't. You are the copyright owner, not them. Carolus 18:12, 21 March 2012 (EDT)
Pursuantly thereto, I shall now suspend beloved paranoia to the extent of re-posting my External links in fullitude, so you can tell all those new composer types to do it like Pete. Peter M. Armstrong 19:53, 21 March 2012 (EDT)

Hi Carolus. FYI: I never did get the postal service's Return Receipt for my initial registered "termination" letter to BMI. RJ did respond, as I've said, but his dismissal of a federal mail procedure (if that's what occurred) seems a tad cavalier. Peter M. Armstrong 12:31, 29 March 2012 (EDT)

Audio of Busoni, Schoenberg, Levy

I emailed Lincoln Center the other week, asking permission to IMSLP-post selections from my 1979 Tully Hall tape. I've just now sent also your email address, in case they'd like to hear straight from... (you being the horse o'course). Peter M. Armstrong 12:05, 9 March 2012 (EST)

And I've now done the same in email to Lawrence Schoenberg at Belmont, requesting permission to post (unblock) the Klavierstuck Op.33a audio. Peter M. Armstrong 17:48, 9 March 2012 (EST)

...and today the same (by surface mail) to Frank Ezra Levy, requesting OK to post my 1980 performance of his father's Five Pieces for Piano (1945). Peter M. Armstrong 18:30, 14 March 2012 (EDT)

Goode Newes: Frank Ezra Levy just wrote, blessing the plan to IMSLP-post my audio (one MP3) of his dad's Five Pieces! So, as Ernst has as yet no Composer page, how should I proceed? Peter M. Armstrong 17:22, 21 March 2012 (EDT)

That's good news indeed. Go ahead and create a composer page for him. You can then upload. Levy isn't affiliated with your old buddy Ralph is he? Might be a problem if that's the case. Carolus 17:28, 21 March 2012 (EDT)
Nope, he ain't. Frank Ezra has assigned all distribution to Musica Neo in Switzerland (and all MS's are at the University of Basle). Peter M. Armstrong 18:07, 21 March 2012 (EDT)
That settles it. Post away. Carolus 18:13, 21 March 2012 (EDT)
Did -- just created "Levy, Ernst" Composer page. (I'll vet not-yet-entered particulars with Ezra.) I also Added a Work: "Five Pieces for Piano, 1945", and this appeared to take. However, the Composer page doesn't list it (as there's no score?), so I'm not sure how to upload my performance audio. Peter M. Armstrong 20:39, 21 March 2012 (EDT)
I added the link to the complete catalog at Musica Neo. There is no work entitled "5 Pieces for Piano" dating from 1945 listed. There is one from that period called "7 Piano Pieces". Is this what you recorded from? Year dates are not normally included in titles unless there is a compelling reason (2 different works entitled "5 Pieces for Piano", for example). Adding the recording should be fairly simple - just use the button now located in the upper RH of the page. Carolus 22:10, 21 March 2012 (EDT)
Yesser is too: (Maybe you looked for "5" rather than "Five"?). As I recall, there is indeed another same-named set, so "1945" got into the title. Peter M. Armstrong 09:27, 22 March 2012 (EDT)
The Musica Neo catalog lists this work as "Fünf Stücke für Klavier (1946)" and "Five Pieces for Piano". The first page of score gives the date "1945", which I take to refer to composition rather than publication. So I've always called this "Five Pieces for Piano, 1945". Sensible to you? (The other work of same undated-title is from 1978.) Peter M. Armstrong 11:32, 22 March 2012 (EDT)
Ok, they're up! Before I alert Frank Levy: should Publisher Info be re score ("Musica Neo") or re performance (me, as now)? Peter M. Armstrong 12:33, 22 March 2012 (EDT)

That's nice and confusing. The PDF book form catalog of works does not list a "Five Pieces for Piano" in any language for any year, while there are two such titles for sale ay MusicaNeo - one dated 1946 the other dated 1976. I'm leaving it as you have it for now, since it is the least confusing option. Carolus 18:17, 22 March 2012 (EDT)

Hi C. Has Lawrence Schoenberg, and has a Lincoln Center admin, contacted you? I've received no replies to-date. Will renew my inquiries in early April if necessary. Peter M. Armstrong 12:09, 28 March 2012 (EDT)


Carolus, if I upload a file to replace a file, must the replacement have precisely the same name? For instance, could "do-hicky-2012_03_92.mid" (just kidding) replace "do-hicky.mid"? Peter M. Armstrong 18:11, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

No, not necessary. The system will continue to use the original file name, but it does not matter what the name is on your own machine. Carolus 18:31, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

Added an External link, "Performance Reviews". Peter M. Armstrong 18:09, 22 March 2012 (EDT) Also removed my sub-header spaces on this page (for less clobber to your TOC). Peter M. Armstrong 11:28, 25 March 2012 (EDT)

Is there an IMSLP-like entity to which I could upload my personal website -- at least, those parts of it that are IMSLP External link targets -- to avoid, were i to die tonight, the targets evaporating once my ISP subscription runs out? Peter M. Armstrong 12:09, 28 March 2012 (EDT)

More practically: may I upload the target files for "Biography" and "Algorithms" directly to my IMSLP page? Peter M. Armstrong 11:46, 2 April 2012 (EDT)

Might my picture (now "PIC-pencil-web.jpg") show up among Google Images, if we change its filename to "PIC-PeterMcKenzieArmstrong.jpg"? Peter M. Armstrong 12:26, 28 March 2012 (EDT)

I've hogged your page. Hope you feel free to get rid of settled or non-actionable stuff. (In future I'll minimize the latter.) Peter M. Armstrong 19:45, 3 April 2012 (EDT)

You know about the new forums we have now? Technically, this page is obsolete. I'll not archive it for a while yet though. Carolus 19:49, 3 April 2012 (EDT)


Thanks. I wonder if JSTOR is the unusual case where an imslp template would not make our workflow any easier. I think my own workflow would stay the same with a template. At the moment, I simply cut and paste the persistent URL that JSTOR assigns to each pdf (perhaps most other libraries don't have this uniform numbering system). With a template, I would still be cutting and pasting the last portion of that same URL for each pdf (the seven-digit ID number). So, please don't bother crafting a template in this case unless it somehow helps the imslp site in some technical way. Thanks for your thoughtful note. Olmsted 13:59, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

Further thought: JSTOR asks for (requires?) a link back to their site in any event, and I certainly want to give that to them. I would not want to use a template that omits a direct link to JSTOR. Olmsted 15:40, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

Hi, The chief advantage of a using a template has to do with ease of transfer should JSTOR change their URL listing by moving to a different sever, a new hosting service, etc. This way, the link can be updated by altering the template instead of having to change individual links on hundreds of workpages. There will be a link back to their site irrespective of whether we use a template or not. In fact, we encourage such links wherever possible as part of the whole 'attribution' notion found in creative commons. (If JSTOR scanned the item in question we are very much in favor of crediting them as the scanner). As for ease of use, you're quite correct than you'll still have to paste the seven-digit number each time. The advantage of templates was really brought home to us when the Gardner Museum changed their URLs for all the recordings and artists about a year and a half ago. The links were all 'manual' and suddenly none of them worked! Carolus 00:49, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

OK. Makes sense! Olmsted 04:28, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
I think??? Jstor has a permalink/persistent-link alias for each first page, like Sibley and other sites, that's supposed to work no matter what server moves they make, but whether this has proven true in practice and fact, I don't know. I seem to recall having to change even those supposed permalinks, but I may be misremembering... Eric 10:29, 25 March 2012 (EDT)

Removal of Parts


I'm really disappointed in your actions! I spent a great deal of time carefully putting the parts to my string quartet up on here. Can you please show me in the rules where it says that you can not have parts divided into separate movements?

Jmpunit 11:11, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
I see we have not yet updated our IMSLP:Typesetting Guidelines to account for this type of thing, which has been a real issue (generating bitter complaints from players) for some recently added works. Since we neglected to update the guidelines, you can go ahead and upload them that way again if you like. Note that the instruction has been added to IMSLP:Score submission guide/Layout of Work Pages. Unless there is a particular movement that stands alone as a separate work, it is generally not a good idea as someone wanting to have parts has to deal with 16 different files (which have to be printed out and carefully collated) instead of 4. This type of thing is really quite unacceptable for an orchestral or large ensemble work. Yesterday, we were getting things ready for the major upgrade, which fortunately went very smoothly. Carolus 00:39, 4 March 2012 (EST)
Okay. Jmpunit 01:24, 4 March 2012 (EST)

Sabine Baring-Gould

I confess that this is the sort of cataloging detail that does not interest me very much. Still, I did first check LoC and Viaf, and I understood both to prefer "S. Baring-Gould". Did I read them incorrectly, or does imslp go with full given names in any event? Olmsted 10:54, 4 March 2012 (EST)

I'll leave that up to P.davydov. We could very well end up using S. Baring-Gould, which would appear to be the most commonly encountered version. The problem with your category had to do with the added parens, which has some potential to create problems when using linking templates, etc. Either S. Baring-Gould or Sabine Baring-Gould is fine and no problem from that point of view. The potential issue appears when you add something like S. (Sabine) Baring-Gould. It probably wouldn't actually crash anything, but if nothing else it makes using the templates more difficult just because it's so easy to drop one of the parens when it's next to a curly bracket. Carolus 22:38, 4 March 2012 (EST)
IMSLP's custom is to avoid initials where possible, so Sabine Baring-Gould would be the preferred form in this case — P.davydov 01:40, 5 March 2012 (EST)

Die Kunst der FugUe, BWV 1080

Dear Carolus, one of the changes seem to be that for people like me it is no longer possible to move pages (no complaint!). Please look at this. Many thanks! --Ralph Theo Misch 18:16, 5 March 2012 (EST)

You should have the ability to move pages. Two questions: (1) Have you tried hovering your mouse over the upside-down triangle on the top of the page, and was there a 'move' link in the dropdown box?, (2) If you do not see a 'move' link there, do you get a captcha when editing a page? (they are related).
Please tell me the answer to the questions regardless of whether you find the move link or not; I want to know what exactly happened so I know what to tell other users. Thanks! --Feldmahler 18:50, 5 March 2012 (EST)

Hi Feldmahler, I couldn't find the move link. But maybe it's helpful to show what I see: Screenshot1.jpg

--Ralph Theo Misch 19:17, 5 March 2012 (EST)

I hovered the mouse everywhere - without result. Another screenshot: Screenshot2.jpg.

Regards, --Ralph Theo Misch 19:36, 5 March 2012 (EST)

Please excuse me. I had misplaced my glasses ;-). Have now all found. --Ralph Theo Misch 03:15, 6 March 2012 (EST)
Don't feel too bad. It took me a little while too! The improved speed is very nice. Carolus 03:17, 6 March 2012 (EST)
It's reassuring. Thanks! --Ralph Theo Misch 19:00, 6 March 2012 (EST)

I found the magic triangle, but I have other problems with moving pages. From above:

"May I remind you to my problem with the Speer Sonatas? They have vanished from the composer page, perhaps because I didn´t add the composer name (in brackets) to the new name after moving from the old name. I thougth this would happen automatically." Notenschreiber 06:54, 6 March 2012 (EST)

2 In Nomine a 4 (Byrd, William)

The page for this piece was changed from one composition to two. I am not sure why. There is only one composition here, so far as I see. --Afolop 09:41, 7 March 2012 (EST)

My mistake - I was looking at a reference and got it incorrectly. I'll move back ASAP. Thanks, Carolus 23:22, 7 March 2012 (EST)

3 Esquisses musicales, Op.33 (Bizet, Georges)

Hi Carolus, a friend showed me today a different reprint (, ARS-102) of the exact same edition - with title page, publisher, year and plate numbers. Cheers --Ralph Theo Misch 18:01, 9 March 2012 (EST)

Excellent - that's a very obscure publisher too! Carolus 15:47, 12 March 2012 (EDT)

War and Peace, Op.91 (Prokofiev, Sergey)

Hi Carolus. This work is currently tagged as "V" in Canada, but the co-librettist Mira Mendelson-Prokofiev died in 1968. Could you take another look? Thanks — P.davydov 14:28, 10 March 2012 (EST)

Thanks, I'll take care of it. Carolus 15:46, 12 March 2012 (EDT)

Ave Maria (Caccini, Giulio)

Dear Carolus, I know the piece for some time and was immediately suspicious. See also wikipedia. --Ralph Theo Misch 19:42, 12 March 2012 (EDT)

Thanks for pointing this out! Since the actual composer, Vavilov, died only in 1972 it will be another 10 years before this can be posted here. I'll mention to Mr. Kowalewski before deleting. Carolus 19:47, 12 March 2012 (EDT)
The (real) composer seems to have eclipsed the authorship intentionally. What is the legal position in this case? Thanks! --Ralph Theo Misch 20:00, 12 March 2012 (EDT)
I was asking myself the same question: if the composer published it anonymously, isn't that enough proof that he didn't intend to retain copyrights on the work? We currently have this Ave Maria on CPDL, and an informed answer could help us to determine whether any action should be taken there too. Thanks, —Carlos (talk) 10:08, 13 March 2015 (EDT)

Notturno, Op.60 (Matys, Karl)

Hi Carolus, I've omitted the article "Die Ziele des Harmoniumhandels" by Hans Freimark (1881-1945, if VIAF is right). - In Eric's file only the first page is shown. --Ralph Theo Misch 19:34, 13 March 2012 (EDT)

8 Songs, Op.42 (Backer-Grøndahl, Agathe)

Hi Carolus, I think it was CR'ed a little bit to quickly: the librettist died in 1955, so still Non-PD-EU, am I wrong? − Pierre Ch. 17:56, 14 March 2012 (EDT)

No, you're correct - still under copyright (until 2026) in EU. I thought I caught that one - guess not! Thanks! Carolus 17:58, 14 March 2012 (EDT)

Concerto, FaWV L:D9 (Fasch, Johann Friedrich)

Hi Carolus, the above work page can be deleted, because its content can be found now in the workpage Concerto for 2 Flutes L:D9. Thank you in advance.Notenschreiber 04:56, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

Egyptian Songs (Rzewski, Frederic)

Hi Carolus. The field for librettist in this work was left blank, but the autograph score notes that it was translated from the ancient Egyptian by "Lichtheim". VIAF suggests this could be Miriam Lichtheim, author of 'Modern Values in Ancient Egypt', who died only in 2004, but that's not certain. I'm not sure of the best course of action to take (if any) in the circumstances. Any thoughts? — P.davydov 18:28, 17 March 2012 (EDT)

I think I will leave as is for now. It's easy enough to block if someone complains, which seems quite unlikely in this case. Carolus 18:31, 17 March 2012 (EDT)

Missing Merton Edition titles

Hi Carolus - I mentioned this once before, but the uploading of the Merton Music Edition doesn't seem to be complete as advertised. Only about 75% of the titles I bought from them a few years ago are available here. I mentioned this to John Harding, who says there should be 1300. The listing totals 876, i.e. only about 2/3. All the best Matesic 04:44, 18 March 2012 (EDT)

There are several things that weren't available due to copyright issues, but the 876 figure refers to works, not files. Many Merton titles have two files associated - one for the score, one for the parts. Others come in two volumes (Nos.1-3 and 4-6 of a set of 6 quartets, for example). The actual number of files is more than 1200 as I recall, so the 1300 figure is pretty close. Several of the new editions went to John Harding, who has them available for sale. If there are some titles in particular you're not finding, let me know and I'll ask Theo. Thanks, Carolus 16:47, 18 March 2012 (EDT):

These are the ones I have in print that aren't here - all string quartet parts in Theo's numbering. I'm away from home so some of the details may not be right: 4564 4565 4566 4567 4572 Ellerton (Ops 62, 74, 122x2, 124), 4576 Charles Wood A minor, 4665 Spohr Op 190 (? - his last), 4667 Orellana, 4562 Chadwick No.3, 4596 Spain-Dunk (non-Merton parts present), 4571 Bruch Op 10(ditto), 4668 Hurlstone E minor. Unless I've been spectacularly lucky/unlucky, probability laws dictate there should be rather a lot more. When I get back I'll go through the Merton catalogue (sigh) Matesic 03:52, 20 March 2012 (EDT)

Btw checking Brown over Google-preview it seems Spohr's last quartets are op146 in G, op152 in E, op155/WoO 41 in E and op156/WoO42 in G minor. Not positive I'm interpreting that right though. Eric 01:15, 21 March 2012 (EDT):

I’ve been through 2-3 pages of the 2010/2011 catalogue, string quartets A-E, enough I think to establish there are lots missing (at least 23 out of 107) and a PATTERN! They are 4550 and 4551 Albert, 4552 Benesch, 4554 Blumenthal, 4555 Bonawitz, 4556 Bovet, 4571 Bruch, 4558 4559 and 4560 Busoni, 4562 Chadwick, 4543 4544 and 4555 Cherubini, 4595 Dancla, 4563 Dayas, 4698 and 4699 Dimitrescu, 4564, 4572, 4565, 4566 and 4567 Ellerton. Some are scores, most are parts, and it looks like they make a continuous run from the 4500’s through the 4600’s. 4100's and 4300's all seem to be present, as do 4800's and 4900's. Over to you! Matesic 13:19, 22 March 2012 (EDT)

...ok, there are a couple of names I'm guessing are maybe familiar(ish) only to me and descendants thereof (e.g. Benesch)... I grow curious. (Well, Dayas I've seen a very few times here.) This could be good, if possible. Anyhow. Sorry :) Eric 10:23, 25 March 2012 (EDT)
Belatedly: we should have Dayas, his dates were 1864-1903, not post-1960... curious... his cello sonata (pub.1901) got mentioned a few times in a book I was skimming, and in the Brodsky papers I mentioned awhile back (re Novacek quartet, etc.) they have a chamber work of his. Hrm. I see a Wikipedia article (Finnish), so there's a biography (of some sort) to link to ... thanks for the Kursch (will download v. soon and listen to soon after that) and sorry for posting this here. Eric 19:27, 1 December 2012 (EST)

No tabs on page!

Carolus......I tried entering Carl Rosier Sonata tabs.....same with F.X Richter tabs....MR 20/03/12--Michrond 10:22, 20 March 2012 (EDT)

the new upload thing doesn't offer tabs because there aren't any yet- you have to create them. -then- after you've edited in some tabs (like arrangements & transcriptions with three equals to each side, say) it'll offer those as options the next time you upload something to that page. or it should work that way. Eric 01:17, 21 March 2012 (EDT)
Eric is exactly correct. Tabs don't appear until you create them now. Carolus 01:21, 21 March 2012 (EDT)

Duets for Viols (anonymous)

Duet No. 23 Vdgs No.709 - I uploaded the wrong files in my original entry and I need to substitute the correct files for the Complete score and parts. The ones there now have been linked to their correct composer - Hingeston - and this needs to be removed for the files that belong here. Can I just substitute the correct files for the ones here now and depend on the moderator to fix up the links? --Afolop 11:18, 20 March 2012 (EDT)

Removed from Anon. It appears to be fine over at Hingeston - nice discovery. Carolus 01:23, 21 March 2012 (EDT)

I am getting everything confused now. I tried to replace the Complete score for Duet No. 23 Vdgs No.709 but it replaced the original file WIMA -...709 (I can't find the complete WIMA file name) which was correct as a Hingeston file, but shouldn't have appeared as a duet. Result: Hingeston has disappeared as a composer as has the entire Duet No.23 entry, and the file I replaced under the Duets still showed a link to Hingeston. What I need as a final result is all of the WIMA files (complete score and parts) with file name ending in 709 remaining under Hingeston as they originally were, and I need to delete these files from the Duet No.23 entry and replace them with new files I will upload. The file names for these new files for Duet No.23 will end in 886 instead of 709 (see the zip file). How do I do this? Some of this confusion may be related to a delay in integrating the changes I tried to make.--Afolop 06:40, 21 March 2012 (EDT)

I did not actually delete any files. All I did was to delete the entries (which are really just links to files) on the Anon. page - leaving what you had over at Hingeston intact. When I went to the actual file itself, there was an indication the file was linked to 2 pages (Anon and Hingeston). As you probably know, to replace a file one must click on the file number and follow the link to "upload a new version of this file" - the new version will not actually appear in your browser for 2-3 days (unless you are logged in), so the best indication of a successful replacement is the appearance of the [B] - which indicates the updated file is awaiting copyright approval. Carolus 12:49, 21 March 2012 (EDT)

I don't think the results were correct; but I have newly entered the correct files for Duet No.23 (using the previously entered zip file that had been deleted) and I think things are now all OK. Except that Hingeston still does not appear in the Category:Composers --Afolop 20:32, 21 March 2012 (EDT)

Overture in C major, K.334 (Fux, Johann Joseph)

Hi Carolus, I added some files from to the above workpage and realized, that the link to the SLUB leads to a sonata of Telemann, but I don´t know, how to fix this. Maybe the SLUB has changed somethimg, so that our template doesn´t work well anymore.Notenschreiber 10:10, 21 March 2012 (EDT)

I suspect Fynnjamin simply put in the wrong number - my bet would be that it was an autofill when he first uploaded. I changed it to the plain SLUB template (no number) which links to their main page. Carolus 12:59, 21 March 2012 (EDT)

I remembered now how to get the ppn number for the template: one have to search the file at SLUB and by downloading it, one gets the number. But another problem arises. There are two files for K.334, manuscript a and b. I found out the two numbers, but in both links manuscript b is shown. Can you please help again? Thank you Notenschreiber 03:33, 22 March 2012 (EDT) I divided the entry of the SLUB at K.334 in two uploads, this is not very elegant, but it works.Notenschreiber 03:12, 23 March 2012 (EDT)

The second (12-page) item consists only of Violins I and Continuo parts. The links issue appears to have resolved now - it must have been a problem with SLUB's server. Carolus 15:26, 24 March 2012 (EDT)

It seems to be o.K. now, don´t ask me, why I have been successful.Notenschreiber 16:14, 24 March 2012 (EDT)

Fantasia for 3 Viols, RC 14 (Coperario, John)

Hi Carolus - I find that I have made the same mistake again. The files on this page are all wrong and need to be removed as well as their links. They cannot be deleted entirely from IMSLP because they appear correctly under RC 15. I think I can just delete the files on this page by editing and add the correct ones here, but I am concerned about the effect of this on the links.

I also notice that there are no longer links from work pages back to the Composer's page.
and Hingeston does not appear in the lists for Category:Composer. --Afolop 13:20, 22 March 2012 (EDT)

I found the link from work pages back to the composer's page, but Hingeston is not listed in the Category:Composers --Afolop 20:27, 22 March 2012 (EDT)

Not even when you're logged in? I'll check. UPDATE: Not appearing for me either. That is a bug. I'll report to Feldmahler. Thanks. Carolus 20:29, 22 March 2012 (EDT)

Re; Manuscript scans

Sorry about that, I had the autofill turned on because I was doing so many manuscript submissions, but I needed a change of pace and did some published flute/piano stuff this week. I'll make sure to double check that field before submitting anything else. JP3 22:15, 22 March 2012 (EDT)

I wondered if that was the case. After all, as a librarian with a manuscript collection you know better than most of us the difference between the two! Carolus 22:18, 22 March 2012 (EDT)


Hi, just a heads up - I just had to delete June Twilight by Roy Agnew because I discovered that the librettist, John Masefield, died only in 1967 (so it's under copyright worldwide). Thanks, KGill talk email 22:22, 22 March 2012 (EDT)

Thanks! Librettists are often a pitfall. Carolus 23:54, 22 March 2012 (EDT)
When was it published? Could try to take this up under IMSLP-US perhaps? ... I recall reading about Agnew (and Sitsky's advocacy of him, I think) a decade or so back... Eric 10:19, 25 March 2012 (EDT)
I don't remember when it was published but most of these are post-1922; I remember another one where it was PD in the US but whose librettist died in 1964, and I retagged without deleting and marked for the US server, so I probably would have done the same for this file if it had been possible. Thanks, KGill talk email 11:54, 25 March 2012 (EDT)

Canon for 4 Voices in A minor, K.555

Bonjour Carolus, On March 20, I uploaded files for K. 559 instead of K 555 On March 23, I replace the files, I have not deleted the old files audio. Marc Lanoiselée

PS : (As I can not answer from my Talk page) Alberto Gomez Gomez makes ​​transpositions for various instruments.

Hello Marc. The only key that should go in the "General Information" section is that of the original versions. If you wish to mention a transposition for an arrangement, it should appear in the "Misc. Notes" section of the file entry itself. It's very common that arrangements are transposed to different keys in order to facilitate performance, so there's not really much need to even mention it unless you want to. Carolus 15:19, 24 March 2012 (EDT)

Romance for Harmonium (Reger, Max)

Dear Carolus, it could be that the copyright was later extended by Peters. I think I have read something like this... --Ralph Theo Misch 19:38, 24 March 2012 (EDT)

If it was published in 1904 (and it appears this was the case), there is no way Peters can "extend" the copyright. Yes, if someone else edited the score and it was published by them, that particular edition might enjoy a longer protection than the original. The fact that Dover reprinted it pretty much confirms it is free in the USA. Carolus 19:43, 24 March 2012 (EDT)
Thanks! --Ralph Theo Misch 19:45, 24 March 2012 (EDT)

Arrangements by Helmut Kickton

Dear Carolus, many thanks for your message. When I find some time, I will upload some more pieces arranged or edited by Helmut Kickton. But before uploading them, I have to merge the files (score and parts), because they are split into separate movements. Soon, there is more to come ;-) Kompy 02:28, 25 March 2012 (EDT)


warning about vandal received but even though I did wake up a time or two after that others seemed to have the problem in hand- but will keep my eye open of course. Eep. :( Eric 10:17, 25 March 2012 (EDT)

Preludes in G and A-flat by César Cui

Hi Carolus, I'm not sure about the status (similar to those editions by Otto Gauß?). Maybe the preface - translation by Google - is helpful. The Prelude in A-flat major was already reprinted by Dover. --Ralph Theo Misch 18:28, 25 March 2012 (EDT)

That entire series was issued by Senart in the years around the Great War. It's clearly free in the USA and probably even free in the EU. We've got other items from it on the site already. Carolus 18:34, 25 March 2012 (EDT)

Thank you! This is interesting in view of more uploads from this series! --Ralph Theo Misch 18:38, 25 March 2012 (EDT)

This is a very similar case to that of Otto Gauß - except even more confusing. Joubert was a general editor of the series, so it is quite unclear how much actual editing he did. Of the multiple volumes issued, which were actually done by him? Was his editorship more of a supervisory one, as with some of the editor of the Neue Mozart Ausgabe? Since these answers are not known, the series should be tagged C/V/C. Carolus 18:54, 25 March 2012 (EDT)

This piece has also been reprinted by Dover (2001). --Ralph Theo Misch 18:13, 26 March 2012 (EDT)

Composer name

Hi Carolus! Before I add this composer I wanted to confirm what name to use. The LOC authority record has her as Mrs. John P. Morgan. She translated a number of works in the late 1800s and for most if not all she is identified as Mrs. John P. Morgan. She also published at least two songs under that name. Her actual name is Virginia Woods Morgan. Her husband, who died in 1878 before she had published anything, was also a composer. I know we don't use the LOC accepted name for Amy Beach so I was wondering if Mrs. Morgan would/should be a similar case. Thanks, --Cypressdome 20:07, 25 March 2012 (EDT)

I think Virginia Woods Morgan is a better choice. For one thing, there is less potential confusion with the work of her husband. Carolus 20:10, 25 March 2012 (EDT)

Thanks. Also, it's bit less patriarchal and a bit more egalitarian. I see our annoying spammer is back. --Cypressdome 20:14, 25 March 2012 (EDT)

I suspect it might be the notorious Eric Quezada, based on one of the names used last night. I already called Feldmahler. Carolus 20:15, 25 March 2012 (EDT)

HELLO there a page for the "Fugierende und verändernde Choräle, TWV 31:1–48 (Telemann, Georg Philipp)? I can't find the first two I entered.....MR

Yes there is - right here: Fugierende und verändernde Choräle, TWV 31:1–48. As discussed, let me know which ones you have arranged so we can create separate pages for those chorales. Otherwise the page will become unwieldy. Look at the bottom in the "General Information" section and you will see links to the 2 pages already created with your arrangements, which are Vater unser im himmelreich, TWV 31:1 and Vater unser im himmelreich (Alio modo), TWV 31:2. Carolus 21:06, 25 March 2012 (EDT)


User_talk page

The button on my page leads me to my discussion page and not the user-talk page. What do I do now? --Afolop 21:21, 25 March 2012 (EDT)

It's a new feature. The link to your old talk page should be close to the top of it. Carolus 21:22, 25 March 2012 (EDT)

Organ scores tab

Hi − Apart from arrangements, pieces for every instrument or ensemble usually go under the "General" tab; why should scores of pieces for organ be put under an "Organ scores" tab? − Pierre Ch. 17:38, 26 March 2012 (EDT)

The General tab is automatically generated. It should be avoided in most cases. The first tab is for the original instrumentation of the work - whose name depends upon the instrumentation of the original version. For solo instruments, you therefore end up with Piano Scores, Organ Scores, Keyboard Scores, <name of solo instrument> Scores. For chamber music up to 4-5 players, we use "Scores and Parts", for larger ensembles we employ separate tabs for "Full Scores" and "Parts" (since a large number of string quartets were published with separate scores, many of them also use the separate tabs for scores and parts). Carolus 15:23, 2 April 2012 (EDT)


Hi Carolus, I have just uploaded accidently a work of Allesandro Marcello on the work page of Benedetto Marcello (Concerto for 2 Oboes in F major). I don´t know, if i can move a workpage from one composer to another, so i would like to ask you, if you can do that for me. Notenschreiber 10:12, 6 April 2012 (EDT)

OK, It should be easy to do. Thanks, Carolus 15:46, 6 April 2012 (EDT)

Computer Synthesized Audio

Hi Carolus,

Under "upload guidelines for performances," it says that "all performances are accepted except computer synthesized audio (e.g. computer renditions of MIDI, Finale or Sibelius files) unless the synthesized audio file is submitted by the composer of the work itself."

I recently arranged and uploaded a score of a medley of public domain pieces. Am I allowed to upload a computer synthesized recording of this medley? I'm not sure if I would be considered the composer of this work.



Haydn London Trios

We have here,_Hob.IV:1_%28Haydn,_Joseph%29 the Trio No.1 Under collections we find a title "3 London Trios" and on this collection page a file with Trio No.1 - 4!

Sinfonie di Varij Autori (Various)

This is really a strange title for all this sonatas. Will there be a better one?

Orchestra Quartet in C major (Stamitz, Carl Philipp)

This is probably op.14.No.1, but i cannot check this, because the file is not downloadable. The copyright status seems to be unclear. In addition the tagging is wrong, this piece is not composed as for 4 players, but for string orchestra, like the name says.

Rondeau Suite 16

The clarinet and bassoon parts of movement 2 and 4 has the same file numbers #, so if you change one of them, the other changes too. But it should be different files of course. The status now is, that movement 2 is correct, movement 4 is not. By the way, shouldn´t the parts (and the scores?) not be merged ?

Herbert Collum

Hi Carolus,

could please change the title of,_Herbert) into "Wo steht in dieser dunklen Nacht I" - I have insufficient access rights to do that. Thanks in advance.


Hi Carolus,

I need your help again. There is a delete request at,_Michael%29.

Thanks again. Michael

You need to use the new talk page (forum-style). This is the old one. I just happened to notice this by chance! Carolus 15:47, 17 February 2014 (EST)

A Baroque Minuet (Gardner, Herbert Straus)

I did some detective work about the above piece, compare the new entry on the workpage. The workpage should be deleted and the work moved to the other page.


I'm interested in the Designer staff. What can I do?

Gliere Gulsara Overture

Hi Carolus,

Are you sure that the Overture should go to Op. 96? The music was published in 1938 and the opera is dated 1949.
His worklist has Gulsara, musical drama (1936) and Gulsara, Overture to the musical drama (1937), which is what it is.
The Russian sources list opera and musical drama as two different works with the same name, not as two versions of the same work.

Wiki cleanup for Instr templates / voices

Hi Carolus,

I’ve added userboxen to my profile and noticed a few things, such as that tenor appeared twice (ten (with only ten-3 filled in) and the more common tenor) and countertenor was listed as instrument, not voice, matching ten more than tenor.

I’ve cleaned this up by changing all ten-* to tenor-* in user pages referencing it, fixing up the templates and category pages, and not only double- but triple-checking things.

I’ve left three pages as redirects though, which can now be deleted by someone with Mediawiki page deletion rights, such as you:

If you would be so kind and delete them eventually, that commences my tenor/countertenor voice userbox cleanup action of today. Thanks!

mirabilos 15:10, 24 July 2017 (CEST)

Not Carolus, but a few comments. Thanks for catching that, but...

  • Please leave the templates in Category:Instrument templates, I've added the noinclude again.
  • If you redirect a category please use the colon otherwise the old category will still be listed as a kind of sub-category in the new one... see here.
  • Deletion of old categories actually not necessary, everything is redirected to the new one now.

btw, please use the Diskussion forum. The 'User Talk' are actually rather old and have been replaced with the new disc. forum. Hobbypianist 19:17, 24 July 2017 (CEST)

Hey Hobbypianist, thanks for the catch with the colon. The old category pages were still sticking around, maybe if the content is deleted… but with what I know from having run Mediawiki myself for a while, they need to be explicitly deleted after they had been created with content.

As for the templates… where exactly did you add these noincludes? Also, they were only in some, few of them previously, and all others I looked at did not have them.

If the WikiForum had a link to get to it from the page header I would have used it. I already wrote on Carolus’ WikiForum, but I was unable to find, with some effort, an appropriate link to it… the “discussion” tab on top links to the Mediawiki user talk page, as does everything else, such as the list of admins, …

mirabilos 19:32, 24 July 2017 (CEST)

We often redirect categories here so I actually see no problem in keeping them (as redirect)...but he can delete them if he wants.
I've added the noinclude in the templates like Template:User ctnr-4, see history (it was there, you removed it). Actually all used instrument templates should be listed here so if you indeed have found others with this missing noinclude you can add it. Hobbypianist 19:46, 24 July 2017 (CEST)

OK, just tested, you’re correct, these are needed. Sorry for the effort then. I’ll have a look if any are missing. mirabilos 20:10, 24 July 2017 (CEST)

Autoconfirm request

Please update my user rights: the captchas are cumbersome and error-prone and I'm not really interested in giving free labor to Google. Thanks. Koavf 12:10, 6 January 2019 (CET)

Double post was due to problems with captcha. Thanks. Koavf 11:17, 16 January 2019 (CET)