User talk:Carolus/archive32



Hi Carolus. You and other users may have noticed that I've been frequently absent from IMSLP. I really wish I could continue to work on IMSLP, but I'm afraid that my current prognosis will force me to take a possibly permanent retirement. I know I have done very little as I've been around only for a few months, and I wish that I could have done more. I hope that you and the other wonderful copyright reviewers will one day finish the copyright project that I regret to admit I have not come close to finishing. I'm also sorry to say that I see little reason to retain my special rights as they will be of very little use from this time on. If anybody has any questions about US copyright law (although Carolus does knows much more than me), please feel free to ask. I will try my best to respond. Respectfully yours, Emery 23:57, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

I really hope "current prognosis" does not signify long-term health problems :-( Emery, over the summer and into the fall you did a remarkably large amount of work for the CR team. I hope that you will be able to come out of retirement at some time in the future; you will definitely get your rights back if so and I think I speak for the whole team when I say that your efforts will be sorely missed. Good luck! KGill talk email 01:33, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
Ditto to what KGill said, Emery. While your tenure here has been short, your endeavors and contributions here have been both extensive and excellent. I hope you will be able to join us again soon. Very best and kindest regards, Carolus 03:21, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
Agreed. Eric 05:16, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
I'm really sorry to hear that, Emery, but your health must come first. Take care — P.davydov 06:34, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Hi Emery, I'm really sorry to hear about your condition. I think I can speak for everyone when I tell you that you have helped an incredible amount with copyright. To have over 8000 CR tags (and an incredibly high "score") in only a couple of months is amazing. In addition, you wrote a really beautiful page about US copyright law. I think that few people could have done such a nice job with such an ambitious project. Your tenure here has - despite being short - been influential. I really hope you will be able to contribute again in the future. Thanks so much for your efforts. Best wishes, Lndlewis10 01:53, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Hi Emery. Even though we never had a chance to talk much, I've heard a lot about your work from Carolus and the other admins. I'm very grateful for your contributions to IMSLP, and am very sorry to hear about your condition. Your work on IMSLP will always be remembered, and I hope your health improves soon! --Feldmahler 06:01, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Hand-in-Hand Marsch, Op.77 (Blon, Franz von) and Die lustige Dorfschmiede Marsch, Op.218 (Fučík, Julius)

Hi Carolus. Are you confident that these two weren't originally written for piano? (as some marches by those composers seem to have been left in short score).

BTW, it's not a good idea just to delete part of the categorization tag, as we've then no way of knowing that it's incomplete. Thanks — P.davydov 06:47, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Blon is a case similar to Sousa. Almost everything listed as a March was originally for band (possibly orchestra). The piano arrangements - made from the short score - were typically issued either at the same time as band or orchestra parts, sometimes first. I'll leave the tags alone. I thought that since the (arr) tag would be generated automatically it would be a good idea to get rid of the pf tag there, but obviously not. It's really difficult to determine which came first in cases like Sousa and Blon, but since they were both known primarily as band conductors and composers, i think it's best to list the piano scores as arrangements. Carolus 06:52, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

RaNdOm FaCt

Jean-Philippe Rameau.jpg This excellent composer...Died of a foot infection.
Hope you enjoy this totally random fact!

Here's a random fact with a picture to go along with it! Enjoy! By the way...Thanks for all your excellent contributions to this site and to the world of music.

Server Upgrade

Hi Carolus -- Happy to hear that the server performance has improved noticeably. Even though the upgrade is mostly done, the next few days (most importantly next Monday and Tuesday) will tell us exactly how fast the server is, and whether there are any other issues with the new server.

By the way, did you get my e-mail last Saturday with the revised amendment? Just wanted to check. --Feldmahler 06:01, 5 November 2011 (UTC)


Dear Carolus, I've got only those few pages (photocopies) and the following (p.68 - Adagio, Hob.XVII:9). The most likely referring publisher information I found at worldcat. I hope I'm right. Regards, --Ralph Theo Misch 23:18, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

P.S.: Those photocopies aren't made by myself, so I don't know anything about their source. They come from a collection (an estate) of several hundred pieces, which I bought last year. --Ralph Theo Misch 00:06, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
That's definitely a Henle engraving, so I expect your publication citation is correct. It's over 25 years old so it will be protected only on the EU. Nice find! Carolus 02:32, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

5 Piano Pieces, Op.25 (Herzogenberg, Heinrich von)

Dear Carolus, if this is really an edition by Cranz, then after 1932. Maybe a mixed edition by different composers. I don't think that it's a reprint of the Rieter-Biedermann edition - I've never seen so many fingerings there (at that time). Maybe the date and the editor (fingerings) are mantioned at the very beginning of the book? --Ralph Theo Misch 23:32, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Yes, it really appears that it could have been engraved in the 1930s. It has fairly extensive fingering, and the pagination suggests it was included as part of a collection. The date and editor would indeed be most likely mentioned at the beginning of the volume. If the rest of the volume is missing, we'll tag C/C/C until more information surfaces. As their faithful servant, I am instructed by my imperial masters to extend greetings and salutations to their fellow royalty (your masters) over in Germany. :)) Carolus 23:40, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Oh, that will delight Her Majesty! I'll tell her when she deigned to stop her beauty sleep. :))) --Ralph Theo Misch 23:51, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Now it dawns on me: the greetings were me? I'm lying in the dust, and dare not raise my head ... --Ralph Theo Misch 00:03, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

No, the greeting was from my royal masters and mistress (there are 3 royals here) to yours. We are but humble and obedient servants, obligated to serve - they barely acknowledge our existence. Hopefully, when your royal mistress awakes from her beauty sleep, the greetings from fellow aristocracy will be appreciated. :)) Carolus 01:40, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

The sheets I wanted to scan this night (G. Rinaldi, Op.68) are put under requisition until I've fulfilled her Royal wish. Lo and behold:

RIght trustie and welbeloued, wee greete you well. Being giuen to vnderstand how greatly wee are delighted about svch kynd regards from the newe world! QVEENE LIN. I. and ONELY. --Ralph Theo Misch 23:38, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

No chance. Maybye She's badly tuned as Her occasionally gallant, Sir Caruso (the real master of musicke, all black as well and singing heartbreakingly), didn't appear for days. Next night then....--Ralph Theo Misch 00:10, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
I'll pass along her majesty's return greetings! Her royal highness is quite beautiful and looks much like one of our former royal masters, who unfortunately passed away a couple of years back at age 16. That particular coloring and pattern is often referred to as 'mackerel tabby' here. The royal who frequents this office looks music like your lady's Sir Caruso - all black (even the whiskers) and green eyes. I have a picture somewhere on the computer here. Perhaps her majesty would appreciate a picture when her is unable to serenade her. Carolus 00:40, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
Hark! Two hours ago, the black Orpheus appeared - and Her Highness overslept this event!! He feasted at the royal buffet (without having earned it by serenading) and disappeared in the dark of the night. Your picture is my last hope! --Ralph Theo Misch 00:10, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
Ha! Check your e-mail tomorrow. I found it! Carolus 01:36, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

4 Petites mélodies (Satie, Erik)

I'm afraid this work should stay a few years in the US server, because of the librettist of its #2. − Pierre Ch. 20:35, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

You are absolutely correct. The page has been marked accordingly. Thanks for catching it!! Carolus 04:31, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

Roussel, Elpénor – why still under copyright?

Dear Carolus,

I was surprised to see Roussel's « Elpénor » deletetd from IMSLP as of May, 2011. I can only assume that this deletion was due the piece naming Joseph Weterings in its subtitle. However, no copyrighted material by Weterings whatsoever is used, as the music is purely instrumental. (It was apparently even written before Weterings wrote the « poème radiophonique » to which the music then was attributed as incidental music.) So my question is: If a piece is purely instrumental, and does not contain any material not original to the composer, but was published as incidental music to a text of a younger author – does then the 70-year rule apply in relation to the latter's date of death? If not, then Roussel's «Elpénor » would be in PD since 2008. Thanks in advance, and best regards, MilsteinRulez

Hi MilsteinRulez, Thanks for mention of this. The score as originally uploaded actually contained the narration by Joseph Weterings (1904-1967) - which is why I deleted it in the first place. However, upon restoring it I noticed that the narration was easily omitted, which is now done. It should be available everywhere but the USA. Carolus 02:42, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
Hi Carolus, that is great news, thanks!

Traditional category

Is something like this what you meant? Category:Traditional --Feldmahler 02:25, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

That looks very good. Since "traditional" encompasses all periods, and includes not only music but text, this seems to be a very elegant solution. Carolus 02:28, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

Ask for deletion

I worked too quickly... I ask for deletion of the misnumbered #151037 (Bortniansky_Kheruvimskaya_No.3.pdf), superseded by #151045. Thanks − Pierre Ch. 11:48, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

Done! Carolus 04:37, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Evening Service, Z.231 (Purcell, Henry)

Dear Carolus, in this case the preface may be of some importance. Cheers --Ralph Theo Misch 00:06, 15 November 2011 (UTC) P.S.: Sir Caruso was here - genuine concern about his health...

Yes, it's fairly important. We have no idea of Herbert Just's dates, unfortunately. Sorry to read Sir C. is not doing well. Life can be pretty dangerous for cats outside around here. There are coyotes, owls, racoons, foxes, dogs and other cats - not to mention speeding autos. Carolus 04:41, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Except for coyotes, everything is represented here. But that's not the problem. I asked a friend of mine (a veterinarian): He says that the minnesinger presumably overdramatises (hopefully) - a difficult folk... --Ralph Theo Misch 01:10, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Gesualdo, Book 4

Hello Carolus

You may ave overlooked my questions in the discussion page of Gesualdo's Book 4. So I take the liberty to quote these questions:

I've been in doubt how to transfer Vincent Carpentier's complete edition of the 4th book. The full scores are just ordinary vocal scores and the separate parts unchanged extracts with lyrics from the engraving source files. The clefs of the separate parts, however, have been selected in order to adapt to recorder consorts; hence their names.

Actually I started with grouping full scores and separate parts, but changed to the current setup as sort of analogy with the viol transcriptions. --Reccmo 07:56, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Answered on the talk page. It's always somewhat of an arbitrary thing with the music of that era. Carolus 07:42, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Hedien Woodwind Quartet No.3 Short request for fixing title

I submitted a score and parts for a Woodwind Quartet No.3 on the composer page Hedien, Mark. When I submitted it, I think I left a space between the period and the number (No. 3 instead of No.3) , which then resulted in this work being listed ahead of Quartets 1 and 2. I tried to fix it the title on the work page, but it didn't seem to change the listing on the main composer page. If there's anything you can do to fix that, it would be much appreciated.

Anyway, the work is mine, and the basic creative commons license is quite alright. Once again, thank you very much for your help, and I'm sorry if I'm being difficult.

--Mark Hedien

No problem. It's an easy fix. Carolus 00:37, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Suite in F major (Witt, Christian Friedrich)

Dear Carolus, again cat tyranny. I'm not able to work under these conditions. Tomorrow I'll give more informations (regarding the preface).--Ralph Theo Misch 00:16, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

I know all too well what you mean! Sometimes, my computer keyboard is used as a hammock by his majesty. :)) Carolus 00:38, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Yesterday, I was the hammock. Afterwards the preface...
I tried to translate some points from the preface for the discussion page (a shining hour of the English language :{ - feel free to make it more idiomatic):
- This edition is based on a set of six parts (located in Kassel, Germany), with the titles:

1. Hautbois ô Flauto
1a. Violino 1
2. Violino 2 ô Flauto
3. Viola ô Flauto Taillo
4. Bassono
4a. Cembalo <non figured>

- According to the use of time and regarding the range of the parts, the editor has no doubts that these parts are genuine for recorders. Moreover F major is a typical recorder key.
- In accordance with the taste of the times, there are other possible instumentations, particularly mixed scorings: strings and wind instruments (→'Violino ô Flauto').
- The continuo is (intentionally) realized as a chordal filling.
Cheers --Ralph Theo Misch 23:26, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

La Priere by Henri Ernst

Hi Carolus! Are we sure this work is by Heinrich Wilhelm Ernst? It seems to be from a collection of works arranged by a Henri Ernst with this one work composed by the arranger himself. Was H.W. Ernst ever known as Henri Ernst? Also, it appears the copyright date is 1871. I think WB has used the gif files instead of the tif files so there's a noticeable loss of quality making that text largely unreadable. Thanks! --Cypressdome 05:30, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Not sure at all. I am pretty sure that Heinrich was also rendered as "Henri" - especially by American and British publishers. Still, that's no guarantee. I'm glad someone could read the date! Carolus 05:35, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

It's 1870 (title page). Just uploaded an alternate file by using the tiffs. --Ralph Theo Misch 00:06, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Thank you! Carolus 04:13, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
Not so fast Ralph. 1870 may be the date on the cover page and so is probably the date of the first included work of the collection to be published but look at the date on the first page of the score itself—1871. Thanks! --Cypressdome 04:27, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

S. Wagner's Sonnenflammen

Hi Carolus! Could you please update the copyright tag on this work as the arranger of the vocal score lived to 1945 so not PD in the EU unless I'm missing something. Thanks! --Cypressdome 04:00, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Updated. Thanks! Carolus 04:12, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

I think I should go to bed as I've just rendered Humperdinck's Was ihr wollt to be PD-US only. RTM had identified the translator as R.A. Schröder which corresponds to Rudolf Alexander Schröder who died in 1962. All I wanted to do was to fill in some plate numbers for Max Brockhaus. Thanks! --Cypressdome 04:23, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Ouch! Humperdinck! Carolus 04:24, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

York Bowen

Hi Carolus! At what point can we start uploading Bowen's works to the Canadian server as his works should be public domain there on 1/1/2012? Thanks! --Cypressdome 04:59, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Any time after July 1 of this year is fine. Ditto for Percy Grainger. Carolus 05:00, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
Many thanks! --Cypressdome 05:01, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

IMSLP Orchestra: Synthesized continuo for Asplmayr Symphony in C

I would like to start the IMSLP Orchestra, and to have them make the world-premiere recording of the Symphony in C major by Franz Asplmayr. It would be like the YouTube Orchestra, except the players would not necessarily have to meet, and some players could play multiple instruments (e.g., a bassoonist could play both bassoon parts). These would all be synchronized by a mechanical playing of my figured bass realization; each player would listen to the continuo through headphones, which would hopefully not bleed into the recording of their playing. Later on a skilled harpsichordist could give a less mechanical performance that would be integrated into the finished recording.

I have made a recording (three files for the three movements) of the Garritan harpsichord in Finale. I suppose one could say that these are of high quality, though on the other hand their purpose would be temporary. What do you think would be the best way to go about this? Alonso del Arte 00:52, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

That seems to be an absolutely fantastic idea - along the lines of what Eric Whitacre has done with some chorus pieces! I recommend that you post your proposition on the forums. This could be an amazing way to get to hear pieces that one would normally never have the opportunity to. Carolus 01:05, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
Alright, I will do that as soon as I figure out how to get on the forums. Do you should think I should upload the MP3s of the mechanical continuo here at IMSLP or somewhere else? Alonso del Arte 23:39, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
I see no problem with your posting of the MP3 of the mechanical continuo here. Would you be putting together the finished recording when all the submissions are in? Carolus 02:41, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
Yes, that's my plan. And, as I think more about it, I think people might be curious to hear the mechanical continuo even if we get a human to do some better figuration afresh. Alonso del Arte 03:54, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

Presentation of Rzewski compositions

Hello Carolus

I'd like to see the works by Frederic Rzewski presented in chronological order like in his WIMA composer page. Is that possible? --Reccmo 12:54, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

It might be. That's very unusual. You should bring this up on the forums as there might be technical reasons to not do this that I am unaware of. Why wouldn't a sortable worklist be sufficient? We have a fair number of those already, which allow a user to use a wiki-table to sort works by the parameter of their choice - including date. Carolus 02:44, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
Actually something like a sortable worklist is what I had in mind when asking this question. Would you consider preparing that? --Reccmo 07:21, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
You should probably talk to Philip Legge about doing that type of thing. He has considerably more expertise in that area than I do. BTW, MIchel Rondeau seems to have difficulty with the concept of each piece getting its own work page. He dumped about 6 different pieces on the page for one of his works today. I'm recommending that he refrain from uploading any more of his 300 works until he takes the time to learn some basic concepts. Carolus 08:12, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
If you just knew how many hours I'm spending on explaining Michel Rondeau how to perform the transfer of his scores, incl. repeated references to my WIMA documentation on how to transfer! Initially I did not ask Michel to take care of his own scores but have realized meanwhile that it's unlikely that 'someone else' would go into transferring Michel's huge number of WIMA contributions. Therefore I asked him to start learning how to transfer. I sincerely hope that this will work in the end. --Reccmo 17:14, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
I had a feeling you might have previously experienced some of the frustration I did yesterday. I left a note on his talk page. We'll see how he does. Carolus 03:51, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Robert Gerhard

Dear Carolus, perhaps this is a case for the US server. But it's not dated - google books and woldcat say 1922. The score only mentions the date of composition (at the end of each piece).
Moreover I've found Hans Gál's piano quartet op.13, CR Simrock 1922 (CS and parts). Thanks and cheers --Ralph Theo Misch 22:05, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Could have been published in 1922, which makes it eligible for US server if confirmed. Also published without a notice. Carolus 02:39, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
Thank you! But though the crowned heads pursue an external policy, I'm too busy to continue. Next days then... --Ralph Theo Misch 00:18, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
I've made a sample of Hans Gál's op.13. - Many pages, just photocopies. I don't know when I'll make it. Please have patience. --Ralph Theo Misch 00:00, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

The Gal is certainly eligible for the USA server. I'm a little surprised our friends at Sibley don't already have this one. It will be a nice addition in any case, assuming their royal majesties permit. Carolus 03:54, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

I did not ask for permission. Rather, I am pursuing a new strategy: During the scan I am learning arias and songs. This keeps the aristocats at a distance. So the complete score is ready, the parts will follow tomorrow. I'll send you an email with the online adress of the files then. Cheers --Ralph Theo Misch 00:17, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
Just to be on the safe side: I've already sent you that email last night. Her mackerel majesty can testify :) --Ralph Theo Misch 00:06, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Separate movement scores for WIMA compositions

Dear Carolus

In your on-page comments to the 13 suites by Michel Rondeau you say

the composer, for completely inexplicable reasons, [has] elected to divide the parts of each of the suites into individual movements with 1 or 2 page parts

There is a reason: when I took over the responsibility for WIMA back in 2001 (upon the sudden death of Werner Icking) many multiple movement WIMA compositions were already present as separate scores and separate sets of parts for each movement. The layout of the WIMA composer pages is adapted to that principle which was adhered to by many WIMA contributors, not only Michel Rondeau. So I'm afraid you'll see lots of future WIMA transfers uploaded in that form.

I do understand your frustration on WIMA compositions split into sometimes tiny bits. But that's how WIMA is arranged. I agree that it would be helpful for IMSLP users to have some of these bits assembled to larger score units. If you go into that activity please be sure to redirect the 'tiny bit' URLs to the URLSs of assembled scores such that WIMA redirections stay valid. --Reccmo 12:04, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

BTW - unfortunately your renaming of the suites to '13 Suites for String Ensemble' does not fit all the numbered suites. Some them are for other instrument types, for example flute and harp.

Yes, I realized that late after I reconfigured that page. There is no way that all 13 suites are going to go on a single page anyway now that I see what is involved. When the time comes to start combining some of these, I am sure your help and expertise will be much appreciated in making the redirects work in an intelligent manner. As I mentioned before, we'll have to go with the tiny pieces things are in for now. This really means that doing something like Michel Rondeau tried to do yesterday is not workable. Each of the 13 suites will require its own page, as will each of his 40 symphonies, etc. I left a note on his page to not upload anything until I've had a chance to review his WIMA page and set up work pages in his category here to correspond - which will be my task for the next several days. Carolus 02:33, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Recordings from

Hi! Is there a good template for those links for the concerts that would also put them (the Chicago concerts for example but others also - that derive from that source - in a category - as we now do for scores) in a category, or would a new one have to be created, like IArchRec ? Thanks - Eric 15:33, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

I think you might be able to use the standard IArch template. I used it a couple of times successfully for the recording pages. Carolus 02:34, 28 November 2011 (UTC)