User talk:Carolus/archive11


Allemande 1735

Hallo Carolus,

vielen Dank für das perfekte Layout bzw. die Korrekturen.


--Metzner 19:03, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Innere Stimmen, Op.2 (Jensen, Adolf), Nos. 1-3

Hi Carolus, while integrating No.3 I inadvertendly removed the editor's name: Wilhelm Kienzl (1857-1941).Sorry. Regards fom --Ralph Theo Misch 16:28, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

This leads to a question: Did UE first issue the Op.2 in an unedited edition, only later issuing the edited one by Kienzel? There is no editor credit on the first piece, and Nos.4, 5 have the supplemental plate number (usually and indication of revised plates with UE). Thanks, Carolus 16:33, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

According to HOFMEISTER XIX (and Op.2 was first published by Fr. Schuberth, Hamburg 1861 as a complete edition of all 5 pieces. While I took Nos. 4+5 from a selection of pieces of different opera (see TN file), Nos. 1-3 are taken from: "Adolf Jensen - Werke für Pianoforte solo - Innere Stimmen Op.2 - Revidiert von Dr. Wilh. Kienzl". This book includes all 5 nos. and nothing else. If it is PD in EU, I will take nos. 4+5 from it, too. Is that the answer on your question? --Ralph Theo Misch 17:50, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the info. I'll re-tag these accordingly. It appears that UE issued them only in the revision by Kienzl. Carolus 00:37, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Complete score?

Hi, Carolus. On the page for the Ladukhin work 12 Miniatures, I was confused why you changed the file description to "Complete Score" instead of "Five selections" seeing as the scan doesn't contain all the songs. Is this really all that exists of the work? Tobeor

Hi Tobeor, The 5 selections were all the titles issued by Chester in their Russian Piano Music collection. Thus, what you posted was a 'complete score' of the item as issued by Chester. I think all 12 of the Miniatures were issued earlier than this by Jurgenson, but I don't know that for certain. Note that the subheading "Selections (5)" appears above the entry for the score. Thanks, Carolus 01:40, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

composition list in another language

Hello, again. I just thought I should mention to someone that the List of Compositions for Louis Spohr isn't in English like everything else. Should that be changed? I don't know other languages very fluently, so it was hard for me to even understand some of the genres listed. Thanks! Tobeor 8:45, 6 October 2009

I'm not Carolus, but I'll say yes - if you can, ask a translator to move the original to an "iflang" construct.
ARCHIVE ;)-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 15:06, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Snailey is correct. The base language of IMSLP is English, though a number of other languages are available via the "iflang" construction. Carolus 15:53, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Canceling my registration

Sorry to bother you again, but I am having technical problems with my internet which will cause me to have to cancel my registration here. How can I be removed from this wiki? Thanks! Tobeor

Sorry to see you leave us so soon! Please leave your request with Leonard, our site bureaucrat. Thanks, Carolus 16:10, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, I contacted him. I'll most likely still watch for new music on this website, and maybe I will make an account again someday. Thanks! -Tobeor


Hi Carolus. I've recently upload scores from Mutopia and all of there scores says This score is put into Public Domain by xxxxxx. Those are typesets and all IMSLP's typeset is in CC licences. So are those scores in PD or licensed under CC? Thanks, Notnd 16:07, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

List them under the CC License. Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 usually works best. Carolus 16:09, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Lieder, Op.49 (Fesca, Alexander)

Hi Carolus, I fear that it's beyond all hope to get hold of the other Lieder of that opus, so I titled the work page according to the title of the song. But your correction is absolutely OK. All the best --Ralph Theo Misch 00:06, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

The reasoning behind the style guideline of using the complete opus for the page is that a future contributor might eventually come up with the other, now missing, lieder. We've already seen this happen in several cases. It's one of the really nice aspects of the wiki structure, multiple collaborators can build a large archive much faster than any one of us could by doing it alone. Carolus 16:24, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Satie - Préludes flasques (pour un chien)

Carolus, there was an error on the work page. This piece was only first published in '67 (not '57 as first indicated) and is thus under copyright in Canada/EU. This piece should, of course, not be confused with Véritables préludes flasques (pour un chien), which was written at the same time and published in that same year (1912). Daphnis 13:05, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

I'll wait for your acknowledgment or initiative upon page/image deletion before I go ahead. Daphnis 19:29, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

You're right. I misread the notice as 1957. I'll delete it shortly. Thanks, Carolus 21:32, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Hear My Prayer (Mendelssohn)

Hi Carolus, that contribution by Jim is the orchestral version of "HYMN, WoO 15". Now there are two work pages. I mention this according to our discussion about Fesca's Lieder, Op.49. Regards from --Ralph Theo Misch 21:49, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know! Carolus 23:43, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Hans-Christoph Steiner

Hi Carolus,

Of course he is. I have communicated with the composer by e-mail, and he has given me explicit permission to upload his piece under Creative Commons 3.0 BY on IMSLP, and he also provided me with his picture and date of birth.

The composition was already available on his website under a Free Art license ([1]), but I sent him an e-mail to see if he was willing to license it under a CC license so we could upload it on IMSLP, and he sounded very enthusiastic about it (and also gave me his permission).

Wasn't it you in the forums? ([2])

Let me know if you would like me to forward you our correspondence (although I would have to ask him first), and feel free to check his website:

-jujimufu 18:33, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Ha! That was fast (I was on the phone). :I figured as much. Just checking to be absolutely sure. Thanks - nice to see you back! Carolus 18:36, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
You were faster - I didn't even get a chance to refresh the page to see if it works, and BAM, new message! :P It's good to be back. I can't be terribly active at the moment, but I am planning on doing bits of stuff here and there when I have some time. -jujimufu 19:06, 14 October 2009 (UTC)


My fault! Thanks Eric 21:19, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Finnish translation of main page

Hello hello again,

I just translated the Main Page into Finnish. My Finnish is a bit sloppy and I had to consult a dictionary quite a few times, but it's there.

It will be quite difficult for me to translate any more pages into Finnish (in particular pages with difficult and legal content, such as Public Domain and stuff), but I think it would be a lot easier for other members to add to or improve an already existing translation rather than start their own. I think there's a native Finnish-speaking member here, so I will try and contact them to see if they can run through the Finnish main page and make it more naturally-sounding and correct any typos and stuff.

All the IMSLP-links in the translated page currently lead to the English translations of the pages; do you think it is better like this, or do you think it would be better if they were red links, leading to the creation of the respective Finnish pages?

Here's the link: Etusivu (ISO code: fi - *although* in the languages list you should list it as Suomi, which is the Finnish word for "Finnish").

-jujimufu 16:13, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Personally, I think the red-links would be better for encouraging the translation, which is certainly something we want to do. However, I recommend that you ask some of the other admins here (Leonard, Peter, Perlnerd666, Daphnis, and Feldmahler if he has time) about it to see if they can think of reasons that we should have them go to the English-language pages. As you say, it's really best if complicated subjects with legal ramifications like copyright are handled by native speakers. Thanks for do the main page! Carolus 16:19, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
Ok, I'll ask them. I think the red-links would encourage translations too - problem is, I don't know if the words that I will choose for the not-yet-existing-pages would be accurate enough to allow other people to build on top of that. I mean, we could just move the pages once a more suitable/accurate translation of the page has been found, but it would be wise to avoid page moves as much as possible. I will ask that native Finnish speaker if they can come up with the important page titles, so I could at least have them as red once I have a working, accurate translation in my hands! Thanks a lot! -jujimufu 16:53, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Studie für Klavier (O'Swald, Ernst)

Hi Carolus, unfortunately I could't find out anything about that composer. Regards from --Ralph Theo Misch 00:45, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Ha! You're not alone. I couldn't either. Carolus 00:45, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

But the publisher still exists. Shall I ask him? --Ralph Theo Misch 01:13, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

By all means. If he happened to have lived past 1960, we'd have a problem. The name looks like a pseudonym, by the way. Thanks, Carolus 01:15, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes, at least we would be well-informed...--Ralph Theo Misch 01:23, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Ma Vlast

When are you going to get around to that? Sorry for prodding, but I guess I didn't really need to about archiving this time ;)-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 02:55, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

If you are referring to the parts, they're already uploaded. Did it after the piece was split into 6 pages. I'm working on getting a full score (SNKLHU) for the whole thing but it will take some time to scan. Still trolling around for Les Troyens also. You see the full score for Massent's Thaïs I uploaded the other night? It's pretty horrendous. Carolus 03:42, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
I did...I considered the featured score very carefully ;) I meant the you still need to de-bind it? Kalmus, BTW has Les Troyens in two parts, with two different editions, and I believe it's out of print...hopefully we'll be able to get the gesamtausgabe soon.-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 04:06, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
I see the binder tomorrow, actually. I was hoping to obtain a full-sized score for Ma Vlast, but the hardbound study score I have at present might have to do. There will be some interesting items coming fairly soon, as I have a large batch of things at my scanning minion. All full score of the Rimsky orchestration of Boris Gudunov (reprint of Bessel, over 700 pages), along with a vocal score of Lamm's edition of the original version. Carolus 04:15, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

O.O - Boris is most certainly a most excellent idea, perhaps more so than the smetana.
For Ma Vlast do you have the Eulenburg?-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 04:17, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

No I actually have a SNKLHU in study format. Not the sharpest print but it will do OK. Carolus 04:30, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

1951 or the 1980 something reissue?-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 04:34, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

1987 reissue. Carolus 04:36, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

300 dpi seems like it would do OK on that. I'm waiting...;)-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 04:41, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Since it's small, I was thinking of doing it at 600. I'll find out how much it will cost to de-bind tomorrow. Carolus 04:43, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

600 for 500 pages...should be ok if we split it properly. Thanks.
How is our friend Ms. Hirsch?-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 04:46, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

No response. I'll ping again next week. Carolus 04:59, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Brahms Op. 29 Motets

Hi, Carolus. I don't know if you are the one who did the copyright review for my scan of the Op. 29 motets from the Brahms Sämtliche Werke. This was my first scan, and I'm trying to get the hang of making them look good. The first version was uploaded as #42090. It looked terrible, with different sizes of pages. I decided to do a second attempt with higher res, but didn't know about the "new version" option for upload and just removed the entry for the first one from the page. So #42090 is still uploaded, but shouldn't be. Would be wonderful if it could be removed. It's not on the work page. I'm tweaking it a bit more to see if I can get a better look, but will use the "new version" button this time. At any rate, I'd like #42099 to remain the entry and #42090 to be removed, if possible. Thanks!--Hansenkd 18:50, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know. It should be possible to find and delete the previous file. The "new version" option is a little tricky to use at first, so your action is not an uncommon one! Best Wishes, Carolus 22:54, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
Thanks much! I really don't know why some pages are showing up with a slightly different width. I did my very best to fix that, but I couldn't quite get it. I wish I had a clue what was up. I had to make photocopies on campus first, since the big GA Edwards reprint volume is way more than my scanner can handle. I did the closest reduction I could on the copier without any loss. And put it as dark as I dared as well. Then when I scanned the sheets, I had to crop for some black strips, etc. I think it looks decent (and like I said, I really did try my best to make it look good as far as my ability allowed), but the slight width variations are mystifying. I even tried to verify with my scanner that the width was the same for each page. If you know anybody who likes to tinker with uploaded .pdfs and they want to fix the width issue, that's fine. I'm guessing it's not a particularly big deal. I'm going to continue to scan v. 21 (probably the least reprinted volume of the GA), and hopefully other works will end up looking nicer. I spent WAY too much time on this today.--Hansenkd 23:54, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
P.S.--My latest variation, scanned at 12000 dpi, hasn't been verified yet.--Hansenkd 23:58, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

As for your width variation, sometimes photocopiers will revert to a default reduction/enlargement without warning. This is especially common with the ones located in places where you have to shove money in all the time. There could be any number of other reasons, of course. There are a number of things to be tagged and cleaned up ahead of the 1200 dpi file. One of us will almost certainly tag it tonight, though. Carolus 00:02, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

They all had the reduction I set; otherwise they wouldn't have fit on the page. Something weird happened when I scanned them to the pdf, I think. Oh, well, that's what you guys are here for. Vol. 21 is quite rare, I have it on hand, and will continue to scan it. Thanks for your support for a newbie!--Hansenkd 01:44, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

I deleted the original, and did the original CR work ^-^, BTW-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 03:39, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Ernst O'Swald again

Hi Carolus, you are right: It's a pseudonym. I've received an answer from Andreas Meurer (Ries & Erler) - the composer's real name is Hermann Erler (presumably 1844-1918): Regards from --Ralph Theo Misch 12:11, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes, it's 1844-1918. His associate Franz Ries was a nephew of Ferdinand Ries. --Ralph Theo Misch 14:15, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Berlioz - Les Troyens (full score)

Carolus, I'm going to begin on the full score of Les Troyens soon and wanted to get copyright confirmation on the NBE edition. According to the critical remarks, the full score published within is the first it appeared in print. If this is so, then the 1969 publication date may make it under copyright worldwide. But I saw reference to an old Choudens print of the full score. The old Berlioz "Werke" did not print the full score if I recall. Thanks. Daphnis 22:44, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Oh no - we're going to have a) a score, and b) an unusable score??? The fates are indeed cruel in the extreme!
Choudens only printed a vocal score as far as I know. I though ABA had a supplement volume with Les Troyens?? It's on the page, and I believe I've seen it - and Kalmus has reprinted the first half...and a french edition for the second...maybe there is a Choudens...*slinks away*-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 01:35, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

OK, the 1969 is probably the first complete score of Les Troyens. However, a 318-page full score entitled Les Troyens a Carthage was issued by Choudens in 1885, plate A.C. 6030. This score is a great rarity. You can expect to pay over 1000 USD should you find one at a place like Travis and Emery, J & J Lubrano, etc. There were probably less than 100 copies printed, and Choudens apparently never reprinted it. It is the hacked up version of the opera, but matches the public domain vocal scores. The 1969 Baerenreiter score is free in the EU, because Editio Princeps only runs for a 25-year term. Not free in Canada or the USA, however. 01:46, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

As I figured. I'll have to pass on Les Troyens unless I can find the Choudens print. Moving on...Daphnis 01:49, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Ouch...We need to do something...-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 01:54, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

The challenge is to actually find something we can scan. Carolus 01:57, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

It appears highly unlikely IMSLP will ever have the pleasure of a full score to perhaps Berlioz' most amazing work in his career. Daphnis 02:03, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

One of our contributors is an editor who worked on the NBA. Perhaps he can persuade Baerenreiter to grant permission. I'm not going to hold my breath or anything, but they have allowed the Mozarteum to host the entire Neue Mozart Ausgabe, including all of the editors' critical reports. So, if the day ever comes, we'd certainly be happy to provide links so visitors could purchase their scores. Meanwhile, there are lots of Google scores to download and strip of logos, etc. Carolus 02:10, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, in the off-chance we are granted permission, I have access to both volumes of the score and was planning on doing it justice in 600dpi. Otherwise, I've got plenty to keep me busy. Daphnis 02:11, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

There may be some hope here. In the mid-90's, Eulenburg had released a miniature score of the full Les Troyens. It was obviously a reprint of the Bärenreiter NBE text. Eulenburg did let it go out of print, as it probably didn't sell too well. So there is precedent for Bärenreiter allowing a reprint. Eulenburg has also reprinted Complete Edition things from Schott (such as Wagner operas). It was the thickest Eulenburg miniature (and length and width WERE miniature) that I ever saw.--Hansenkd 12:45, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Would you happen to know if this was a reprint or re-engraving? And was this a licensed reprint/engraving? Daphnis 13:19, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

I do NOT believe it was a re-engraving. Eulenburg must have had some permission from Bärenreiter at the time. I know they let it go out of print at some point; it was available circa 1995. I seem to remember there being some notice about it being reprinted from the NBE. Eulenburg is affiliated with Schott now. Their representatives are quite friendly and will answer emails; somebody might know about the status of that miniature Les Troyens.--Hansenkd 17:38, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

The Berlioz was almost certainly a licensed reprint. As for the Wagner, keep in mind that Eulenburg has been an imprint of Schott since the late 1970s. Carolus 19:55, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Suor Angelica

Hi Carolus, I uploaded the revised Suor Angelica score "for future use", and somebody duely unblocked it. (I can't find a record of who it was, though, so I'm letting you know.) Operalala 23:10, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

It was P. davydov, but I corrected the tagging. Daphnis 23:19, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Die Lehre von der Harmonia (Draeseke, Felix)

Hello Carolus, I splitted the pdf file, changed each page to grayscale, removed the google icons, saved them (the pages) as jpg and merged finally all to one pdf. Do you know a better way? - Thanks --Ralph Theo Misch 10:11, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Monochrome TIFFs are a lot smaller than grayscale JPEGs, generally. They also print more easily. The real nasty thing about the Google scans are the randomly placed low-res grayscale systems, pages, or sections of pages found throughout. If you have to end up with grayscale, JPEG is a pretty good choice, though. Carolus 18:51, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Trio No.5 (Colla, Alberto)

Hi Carolus, while having a look at new pages I came across this: user CONCINNITAS1 has created two composer categories: Category:Cascioli, Gianluca and Category:Colla, Alberto. I guess he is G. Cascioli because he writes "...In this work Colla uses a new harmonic system..." But then he needs the permission to post the work. The work is a new composition of a living composer and has PD, shouldn't it have then a CC licence or is there an exception?
By the way, just out of curiosity, the Stenhammar op.34 you tagged V/C/V (I made it accordingly for movm 3, 4). It's from 1952 so I would have tagged it 2023 for Europe. Regards, Hobbypianist 19:57, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

If Colla is another living composer, you are correct - he has to have obtained permission in writing. Thanks for catching that. I checked on the renewal status of the Stenhammar. It was not renewed after 28 years, nor was an NIE filed for "restoration" by Gehrmanns before 1999. With Stenhammar being PD in Sweden since 1999, it is almost certainly PD in the USA as well. Carolus 20:37, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

I confirm that my name is Gianluca Cascioli and that I am User:Concinnitas1. I confirm that my trio is unpublished and freely downloadable by anyone. I confirm I have Alberto Colla's permission to publish online his Trio n° 5 "Concinnitas" (also this work is not published)

I know Colla personally and he agrees about all this.

Some of Colla's works are published by Ricordi, Universal and Sonzogno. Therefore I will publish on this website only his unpublished music, and only with his permission.

If you still have doubts write him directly at :

Otherwise tell me what am I supposed to do.

The purpose of my channel (CONCINNITAS1) would be to continue uploading almost exclusively unpublished music by Colla and by myself.

Is this fine ?

Gianluca Cascioli (User:concinnitas1)

Draeseke - C.Ph.E. Bach

Thanks for your reply! - The other extreme are those high-quality colour scans by the libraries themselves: Two hours ago I startet to download 'Versuch über die wahre Art das Clavier zu spielen' from Havard ( After half an hour converting without any progress I called off. I fear the result would be a real byte monster. Kind regards --Ralph Theo Misch 23:14, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes, the Harvard site really has some exquisite color scans. There's also the sit at Duke which has a very nice collection of color scans of late-18th and early 19th century string ensemble music. The files are pretty big, though! Carolus 00:35, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Durand et Schoenewerk

I didn't see " Durand et Schoenewerk" mentioned on the parts, and Durand et Schoenewerk just redirects to Durand - though it may well be a better and more explanatory choice than Durand or Durand et Fils, I don't know? Thank you for the corrections, of course! Eric 20:00, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

The company name didn't change to Durand & Fils until late in 1891. The Sibley score seems to be a scan of a later issue, printed after the name and imprint change. It's also interesting in that they took the trouble to change the plate number prefix to D. & F. throughout, which was certainly not always the case. The other possibility is that the plate number was assigned in 1888-1889 and it took more than 2 years to actually appear in print (not unheard of by any means), in which case we should treat A. Durand & Fils as the original imprint. I did not go over to Hoffmeister to see when it actually first appeared. Sibley tends to be rather careless about dating things at times - especially for the Jurgenson and other Russian titles, which can be a couple of decades off.


Sorry about that! You're right - I didn't realise google would still have a say at this, but of course - why shouldn't they? :x

Unfortunately, I don't have the patience to go through all 300+ pages and remove the google logo.. About the low-res thing - are you talking about the same book or another book? If it's another, let me know. Thanks for noticing it and letting me know - it's a pity I couldn't find another copy of the book; although I doubt anyone will miss the latin version, but it would be a nice addition.. -jujimufu 21:12, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Actually, I'm talking about all of the Google scores I've run across. Take a look at some of the Glazunov Symphonies I uploaded. Apart from this very annoying flaw, they are wonderful scores, often including a full-color scan of the amazing Belaieff title pages. I have seen enough Google books to be able to tell if they do the same crazy thing. Carolus 21:15, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
Wait - so are the Glazunov Symphonies you uploaded still up? (I don't think I uploaded any other googlebooks scores other than the Boethius one) -jujimufu 21:40, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
I removed all the logos, of course. Metatags too. You have to also watch out for some of the things on the Internet Archive, where Microsoft has added logos. Unfortunately, they cannot be removed using the Acrobat plug-in I have here. Carolus 21:41, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
Ok, I removed all the logos and the first page, as well as the metadata (I think I did, at least) (well, I'm sure about the logos, but you can double-check for the metadata). Is it possible to revive the composer's page, or do I have to make it from scratch? -jujimufu 12:26, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
Just bumping the last message in case you missed it/forgot about it. -jujimufu 19:39, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

I left the composer category Boethius and the page you created in place. I just deleted the file. You can upload a new file any time. Carolus 20:03, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Sorry about that.. I was looking for it under the wrong name (without the diairesis). Got it now, thanks! (and sorry for wasting your time..) -jujimufu 20:49, 26 October 2009 (UTC)


Hello Carolus, is it true that Category:Godard, Charles is Redirected to Category:Behr, Franz? Greetings and all the best. Thanks for all your help.Generoso 22:34, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I was surprised by that one, too. I looked it upon WorldCat and found out Charles Godard was one of several pseudonyms used by Behr. I sometimes wonder how many other pseudonym-composers are out there lurking. Carolus 23:25, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Some questions regarding RGA

Hi Carolus, I've seen your uploads of some Reger works, thanks! This was a gap in our library. For the next weeks I also plan to post scores from my Reger collection (missing piano 2h, 4h, missing piano chamber music and the works for orchestra/concertante). Because of the vast size (>100 files, >600MB) and my slow upload speed I'll do this in several steps. Since I couldn't get original editions for each work I scanned many works from the Reger Gesamtausgabe. But I wanted to clarify some points first before I start: 1.) Some works still have complete copyright notice, for example Bote & Bock 1910. Shall it be tagged according this notice even if small corrections have been made and even if the engraving is newer (which seems to be the case for several works)? Or tag V*V*V* ? 2.) If only publisher is mentioned but no date: also VVV? 3.) without any mentioned publisher I'll tag V*V*V* resp. V*/xx/V* if vol. published > 1963 4.) for example the Sechs Klavierstücke were published 1943 by B&H. In the RGA it's a different engraving/edition. However, such corrections can't "reduce" the normal CR term, or can they? I would tag it V*39*14*

Maybe I already start within the next days with the first scores. I would ask you to have a look at the items whether everything is ok once they are up. Thanks and Regards, Hobbypianist 18:47, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Hi, There's not much left in the Google collection of Reger, so I am delighted you can add some more. To answer you questions -
  1. If the original notice is present, and no addtional claim is being made upon the new edition, It should be tagged according to the original notice. The applies even to new engravings. Other than the UK, a new engraving is not subject to protection simply as a new typeset and layout. (Even in the UK, the term is only 25 years, which means the new engravings issued up to 1984 are free even there).
  2. Yes. Publication without a date is the same as publication without notice. Especially, for anything issued before 1978. That's a fatal error under the US statute at the time of publication.
  3. That's a pretty good plan. I should look over the post-1963 items. If they have a valid notice, they might be subject to the [TB] block.
  4. No, re-engraving does not reduce the term. If the new engraving was issued without a notice or a defective notice before 1989, it does invalidate the copyright, however.

Thanks for the info! The first step were the piano works. Apart from some small pieces from supplement vol.38 which I can not post we actually should have now all his works. Chamber and orchestral music will come sometime in Nov./Dez. Hobbypianist 21:31, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Manual of style

Feel free to make changes: OP Project Manual of Style.-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 18:57, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks!-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 19:44, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I thought some explanations might be helpful. Especially true for the page-turn issue. Carolus 19:45, 25 October 2009 (UTC)


Oh, ok. Thanks :) But what does "contributor" mean in that context? Does it mean it's the person who contributed the score to the publisher? -jujimufu 19:46, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Probably. I see from the scores that they all appear to be part of a larger collection, maybe a series or periodical. The 'contributor' therefore had nothing to do with the creation of the piece, nor were they credited with editing or arranging the piece (usually 'bearbeitet' in German), even though I expect that some of these are actually arrangements. What is the name of the collection or series these are taken from?
It's from a periodical called "Gitarristische Vereinigung" (published by a 'Verlag Gitarrefreund' - the particular one was form 1917). They're all from files from the Boije collection. -jujimufu


Could you please "refill" again (I've been doing justice to the Dvorak)? Elgar, Holst, Nielsen, and Scriabin come to would be nice if the entire collection were up so we could pick and choose at will ;)-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 20:11, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

I'll get to it as soon as I can. I'm up to my neck in a major swampful of alligators right now with my 'day job'. Carolus 00:09, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Mussorgsky - Boris Godunov

A quick 'thanks' for this marvelous addition. I only wish I could read Russian! Great contribution. Daphnis 01:43, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Stay tuned. It will take some time as I have to be very, very careful - but there will be a ca.1880 printing of the first edition vocal score (Bessel) added to that page sometime in the next few months. I've also just obtained a very nicely printed Muzgiz study score if the RK orchestration. I'm working on getting Lamm's edition of the original orchestration as well. Carolus 01:46, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Fantastic, I look forward to these! Daphnis 01:47, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Concerto for 2 Flutes, Strings, and Continuo, RV 533 (Vivaldi, Antonio)

Why is this VVV? It's clearly a new typeset - I just messaged...archive, again...o.O-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 01:35, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Change seen. Sorry!-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 01:36, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Composer death dates

Yes.. I understand.

These composers are all from publications of the very early 20th century. Out of all the composers that I have found dates for, I have only found 2 so far which have died after 1959 (one in 1960, one in 1971). I think it is more likely that these pieces are in PD than not. Regardless, since we have so little information about these composers, is it not better to leave them here, and if at some point someone claims copyright and provides us their date of death, we can remove the pieces from the website, having then acquired some hard-to-get information?

I will refrain from doing so in the future. What should I do, however, with such composers who are very obscure and finding information on my own is too difficult? Could I still create the composer's page, add the MoreInfo tag, and just write that we have some compositions but this composer but we are looking for his date of death before we upload them? Maybe we should make a separate tag for people whose date of death is missing, as a kind of priority stubs. Does that sound like a good idea? -jujimufu 09:52, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

P.S. oh, and are you going to delete the composer pages and compositions of composers without a death date? If so, let me know because I need to re-download the scores; I had to go in length to extract the scores and rename them from a larger collection of guitar journals, and I have deleted the original files, so I would need to have the files for when we find out the death date so I can re-upload them.

I was thinking about this issue a little. So far, the only one I'm really concerned about is Schulz. For most, I think that using the formula of "Birth Date=ca.1870" and "Death Date=ca.1940" on the composer's category page should suffice. Since you're already including the more info tag, it show a good-faith effort on our part to determine the composer's dates and observe the copyright law. No, I'm not going to delete anything unless new evidence surfaces which forces me to do so.
Fair enough. I will do my best to determine as much information as possible before creating the composers' pages, to avoid situations like Schulz's :) Do you still think it's worth creating two kinds of composer stubs, one for more urgent (i.e. dates of death for composers who lived close to the turn of the century) and one for other information (like more precise dates, biography links etc)? And lastly, do you think it would be possible to create a negative-category? So, create a category which will list all the composers' pages which don't have the Picture field in the #fte template (so we can focus on composers with no images)? Or should I ask Peter about that kind of stuff? -jujimufu 20:30, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
I don't think it's necessary right now to create 2 types of composer stubs, though if we keep on running into collections issued into the ca.1920 era (like this massive Guitar series) I could see the need for it as there would be even more composers born in the 1880s and 1890s cropping up. The negative category could be very useful. For example, our colleague Aldona has been busy adding lots of composer pictures. a negative category with all the composer pages lacking pictures would no doubt be quite helpful for her. Ask Peter and Leonard too, but I can definitely see where it could be useful from a site-improvement standpoint. Carolus 20:36, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
This is jumping in, but you can find a list of composers lacking photos by going to the Composernotavailable.jpg (or whatever) file and checking which pages link to it: [3]
Although it's a little out of the way... KGill talk email 21:39, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Wooo! Not at all! That's bright thinking :) Thanks tons, this makes things a lot easier (although the Categories in that page are listed according to date of creation, and not alphabetically). Do you think it might be able to take the content of that page and re-sort it in another page? -jujimufu 22:35, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
That I don't know. Possible solution: adding a category link to the image page (weirdly, you can edit it...don't quite know what that means...). I have no clue if that would work, though. KGill talk email 22:38, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Actually, I take back what I said. A better solution would be to add the category link to the composer template under the condition that no picture filename is provided. If no one objects, I think I'll try to do that. KGill talk email 01:42, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
Which turned out to be easier said than done...for some reason, I wasn't able to access the variable that determined the picture filename... KGill talk email 01:58, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
Yeah - since the templates were changed (quite a while ago), I don't even know where to find the original templates anymore, let alone edit them.. -jujimufu 11:48, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Please help! :)

I uploaded the complete version of the score "The Little Humpbacked Horse" by Cesare Pugni. It was a PDF file, 27.1 MB total. The file doesn't seem to have uploaded properly ... is it to large? Please help me to get this up properly - is there a way to shrink the files? I noticed on my talk page - that you explained how to shrink the files, but what program should I use? Is there a step by step entry on this site that explains such things? --MrLopez2681 15:58, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Hi, I looked through the upload log and did not find your score, which means that you were most likely not successful in uploading it. It's not too large - we have files over 100 MB here (not many). The best way to shrink file size is to save your scans in TIFF format, bitmap (monochrome), at 600 dpi, with CCLT level 4 compression. There are a number of programs that will do this. If you have a Mac, there's a wonderful shareware program called Graphic Converter which will allow you to batch-convert large numbers of scans. (Scans are usually saved as individual files for each page, in some type of graphics file format). Carolus 19:31, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
I do not have a mac - I have Wiindows XP on a Dell. I have just tried re uploading this file, but I get the same result - once the upload is completed and one clicks on the link, it takes one to a blank white page (?). --MrLopez2681 04:38, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
I have responded on my talk page to your message. --MrLopez2681 01:41, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Marmontel and Pfeiffer

Hi Carolus, You amended the publishing date for these two files I've uploaded recently. They are taken from a collection of pieces published by Durand (although with a cover by Rouart-Lerolle) which is probably 1909 or shortly after that date, as one the pieces is marked with a copyright by Durand 1909. Obviously, the Marmontel piece was written before 1909, but what is the rule here for the date to be indicated as the publishing date; is it the assumed date of first publication or the real date of publication of the collection? Since I have others to upload, I expect that you can give me directions. Jean-Séb

The date used is the earliest one for the particular engraving or typeset (not printing) that has been scanned. For example, the Marmontel piece was definitely reprinted from a much earlier engraving, probably from the 1870s. So, the date would be as it amended it, but it's always helps to add the ca.1909 collection info on the line beneath, if known. Simply add the break symbol <br>, followed by ReissueTitle of Collection, date (if it appears on the score of the collection) or n.d.(known date or estimated date), collection plate number (if known). So your Marmontel publisher info would end up looking something like this:
Paris: Durand, Schoenewerk et Cie., n.d.(ca.1872), plate D.S. et Cie. ####
ReissueCollection Title, 1909, plate D. & F. ####
Thanks for asking! Regards, Carolus 23:52, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Berlioz file oddities

Carolus, can you take a look at La Damnation de Faust, H111, Chanson de Méphistophélès (Berlioz, Hector) and tell me why, when trying to merge that with the main work page, I'm getting a "File entry #1 render error: filename not in index. Please use the add file links to submit files to the page." error? Daphnis 14:57, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Two spaces in filename.-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 20:59, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

So that was it! Hmmmm. We had that issue with some earlier files. These are very hard to spot with the naked eye, I suppose. Carolus 21:03, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing it. I didn't see any spaces, but glad it now works. Daphnis 21:05, 31 October 2009 (UTC)