User talk:Carolus/archive9


Tianquan Hu

Hi. The scores of him are from [| China Medley], which are Public Domian. Thanks, User:Notnd

Thielo instead of Thilo

Hi, I´m so sorry, but I forget the "e" in the name of the composer Thielo. Can you fix it?Notenschreiber 04:19, 4 July 2009 (EDT)

Continuo or Basso continuo (B.c.)

Hi Carolus, why have you changed the title in the Besozzi-Sonata? I think, B.c. is more suitable und coincides with the title within the pdf. Notenschreiber 14:48, 5 July 2009 (EDT)

The most common English usage is Continuo, and even when B.C. is found, the abbreviation capitalizes both letters (B.C.), the mixture of upper and lower cases seems to be present in German only, though the all lower case "b.c." is often used as well. Basso Continuo is also frequently used in English. I am a little nervous about using the abbreviations as it might cause some confusion as there is a surprising number who don't understand the abbreviation, in my personal experience. Since we seem to be getting more and more items of this nature all the time, I think it would be a good idea to start a thread over at the forums about how to standardize generic titles of this type. I think that your listing of the key last is a very good idea, as this would result in all of the sonatas for oboe being grouped together instead of all the sonatas in D major being grouped together in the index. Another issue has to do with the practice of works for oboe (or flute, or violon) and continuo. This was often a publisher's attempt to sell a work to as many people as possible, when the composer may have originally intended the work for a specific instrument. Carolus 15:10, 5 July 2009 (EDT)


Hi Carolus, another problem. I moved the sonatas I and II from B***** to B*** (Bach?). This works with II, but I disappears. Please help! Notenschreiber 15:14, 6 July 2009 (EDT) You can forget it, I could fix it, I think. Notenschreiber 15:28, 6 July 2009 (EDT)

I moved the one back, I gather you figured it out. It was having no space between the asterisk and the opening parens that caused the crash. Carolus 15:30, 6 July 2009 (EDT)

Catalogue De La Musique Imprimee Avant 1800

This book was mentioned an eternity ago (I think it was March) - any information? I know that these loans can be quite slow sometimes. BTW - archive time do get a lot of "mail"-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 20:08, 6 July 2009 (EDT)

They sent me the wrong thing. Have to start all over again. Carolus 20:49, 6 July 2009 (EDT)
Ouch.-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 12:35, 7 July 2009 (EDT)

Allegretto con variazioni 'Ah, vous dirai-je, Maman' by J.C.F. Bach

Hello Carolus,
a user uploaded a score of this piece. It was, however, incomplete so I added a new one since I have this edition (not with the same page numbers but the score itself seems to be identical), both are here. In my edition the preface states "Edited by Franzpeter Goebels" (1920-1988). However, I can't see any significant editing. Some dotted slurs, yes, but no fingering at all. I'm absolutely unsure whether this is an old or new engraving. Would you please have a look at it (and delete if necessary)? Thanks a lot, Hobbypianist 13:23, 7 July 2009 (EDT)

Glazunov La Forêt

Hi. It seems you have uploaded the wrong file. When you download it you get the 2nd symphony... Asj 04:39, 9 July 2009 (EDT)

I did indeed!! Thanks for pointing that out. The correct one is now in place. Carolus 16:04, 9 July 2009 (EDT)

I did it again

Hope you don't mind!-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 16:07, 9 July 2009 (EDT)

I don't mind. Just too popular, I guess! Carolus 19:00, 9 July 2009 (EDT)

Deleting files

Hello Carolus. While checking the copyright status of some new files earlier, I found three that were duplicates:

  • SIBLEY1802.5424.13656.26d8-39087008963698op39+score.pdf
  • SIBLEY1802.5424.13657.0cce-39087008963698op39+violin.pdf
  • SIBLEY1802.5424.13658.235f-39087008963698op39+cello.pdf

I removed the references to them from the page in question, but they're still on the server, so it needs a sysop to delete them. Is this something you could do in your copious free time?  :-) — P.davydov 13:50, 10 July 2009 (EDT)

Done, done and done! Next time, just provide the IMSLP numbers - it's faster.-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 15:47, 10 July 2009 (EDT)
Oh, and sorry for jumping the gun - I thought you might want 30 more seconds to add to that free time ;)-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 15:47, 10 July 2009 (EDT)

No problem. Glad there's one less thing on the list. The thunder outside is starting so I may have to depart soon. Carolus 15:51, 10 July 2009 (EDT)

Was that all metaphor? I ask, although I see violent weather heading your way.-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 17:07, 10 July 2009 (EDT)

No, it really got dark and thunder was getting loud. Seems to have died down for the time being. Carolus 17:11, 10 July 2009 (EDT)

MUS File

I have noticed that I can upload files in the .MUS file format. I have the Finale 2010 program which says Copyright 2009, All Rights Reserved. That means can I upload files in .MUS Format? Thanks,Notnd 01:09, 11 July 2009 (EDT)

Uploading items in .MUS is not encourages any longer as we mainly have PDF files here. You can include a .MUS along with a PDF. Finale has the ability to generate PDFs from the native .MUS files. Carolus 03:00, 11 July 2009 (EDT)

Schirmer Volume - lots of V/U/N

Should we either tag all of these V/C/N, because they're from sibley (are we awaiting a response on this?), or V/N/N, based on the date, and the fact that Schirmer usually renewed and provided notice?-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 21:22, 11 July 2009 (EDT)

This is really very strange. I'm going to have to discuss this with Jim Farrington at Sibley next week. Each work in the 1929 collection is definitely edited by Bonnet, and I think it's highly unlikely that Schirmer would have dropped the renewal - though it's certainly not impossible as renewal would have fallen in the late 1950s, which has a very difficult period for Schirmer. The editing is not of an urtext nature, either. Perhaps Sibley has info on the renewal status of the collection which would clarify things. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. Carolus 22:36, 11 July 2009 (EDT)
I left my thoughts on Tolentino's talk page.-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 00:01, 12 July 2009 (EDT)

Bach: Mass in B-minor

Hi Carolus. In answer to your question, I'd recommend keeping 'generic' titles (e.g. Symphony, Concerto, Sonata, Mass), and keys/instrument names in English. So I'd definitely be in favour of using "Mass in B minor" rather than "Messe h-Moll". The German can still be used in the "Alternate Titles" slot further down, so it would still show up in the searches.

I might take a look at Bach after I've finished checking the Brahms entries. At least he wasn't quite as prolific as JSB! :-) — P.davydov 20:36, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, I thought that the generic was in keeping with the style adopted here. I'll post over at the forum before making any drastic changes. We'll really need to discuss the issue there. The whole JSB section is organized around the BGA, which is only a fraction of the available publications. Having large blocks of works on a single page will present serious problems as more editions, transcriptions and arrangements are added over time. Carolus 21:57, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
Yes, but do we want a page for each of the 371 Chorales? Or his songs?-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 02:24, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
No I don't think we'd go that far. There are some works which would best remain grouped together. Carolus 05:09, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Klavierübung (Busoni, Ferruccio)

Hi Carolus, I added some files to this page, but some sort of error occurred, so they did not show up on the page. The files are uploaded and I can see them in "my contributions". I tried editing a file description template to show them, but they are also not added to some sort of index, so that didn't work. --Robert.Allen 20:31, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

PS- Here's the error (use section edit here to see actual file descriptions): File entry error: filename 'PMLP48002-Busoni_KU10_2_pp13-26_abgeleitete_Formen' not in index. Please use the add file links to submit files to the page.
--Robert.Allen 20:31, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Hi Carolus, Thanks VERY MUCH for all the help!! And I'm really very happy to hear that Busoni's second edition of Klavierübung will be available from IMSLP. This is an important set, of an up until recently "major rarity" (Beaumont, 1985). Very few copies were printed. The only hardcopy of the complete set that I found on WorldCat is in Munich. It's tremendous that we now have it complete on IMSLP. (Walter Cosand's site is a great resource, and I suppose a lot of people know about it, but more will find it, now that it's located here.) --Robert.Allen 07:03, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Not sure I understand why the upload failed, but I did notice now that one of the 14 files (Busoni_KU10_0_Title_&_TOC.pdf) with the Title page and Table of Contents (only 120kb, and two pages) did for some reason fail to upload. (Are ampersands a problem?) Perhaps the failure to upload that one file resulted in none of the other files' info being loaded into the index? (I double checked, and all 14 files had underscores instead of spaces in the file names on my computer hard drive. So I'm wondering whether the browser was the source of the problem. Maybe it should have converted the ampersand to a code?) --Robert.Allen 07:03, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Is there some place to find out what the copyright letter codes, like " V/C/V" mean? I'm not sure what the links is for, but apparently it is not an explanation of the meaning, since access is blocked for users like me. --Robert.Allen 07:03, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

I just now noticed that all the file names I put into the file description template have spaces (I created this manually). I copied the names from the IMSLP file page, from the text at the top of the page where there are spaces rather than the underscores in the actual file names. The names on my computer had the underscores, so I think the error was mine in creating the list of files in the template. Did not notice this at the time. (More than one error here!) --Robert.Allen 07:10, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Removal of sub-par scans in duplicate

Carolus, are we agreeing upon a standard practice when there are duplicate scans of the same edition and one is noticibly poorer quality? Do you see any reason to keep around the newer scan of the Concerto here? Daphnis 21:32, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Personally, I see little reason to keep the newer scan there, unless that marked-up score had markings of some significance (which I doubt). The same can be said of the scans originating from the "Variations" project at IU. If we have a better one (300-600 dpi monochrome) that is a smaller size than their low-res scan (72 x 72 grayscale), I see no reason at all to retain theirs. You might want to bounce this idea off Peter, Feldmahler, and some of the other regulars here also. I'd also really like to get all of the public domain items (as opposed to CC items) in clean, unlocked files, stripped of urls (sheetmusicfox,, etc.) Carolus 23:52, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

I couldn't agree more. In the case of the Concerto, I highly doubt these markings are from any renowned artist, but it isn't mentioned anywhere and so I vote delete in addition to the other scenarios you mentioned. I was in the process of unlocking all PDFs that weren't licensed in some form but haven't yet finished the project. I've put this on my list of things to do soon. Daphnis 00:12, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

That's great news. I knew you were unlocking some of these. If you have the full version of Acrobat, there's a very handy "Examine Document" command that removes all the metadata and form fields, which are often used to paste URLs on each page. This archive is getting to the size and scope where we really do not need to keep sub-standard scans of things. The only exception is if we have nothing else for the work/edition at hand or if the file size is significantly smaller for the screen-quality item that it would make life easier for those accessing the site from places where only dialup is available. Carolus 00:19, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Indeed on both accounts. I feel we as admins really need to start stepping up our efforts to clean-up and standardize as much of the site as possible so once we hit that 100,000 mark, we aren't faced with going back and re-doing much of this work. Cheers. Daphnis 00:50, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Amen. A stitch in time.... as the old saying goes. Carolus 00:54, 19 July 2009 (UTC)


Hi Corolus, I have obtained permission to post these typeset works on IMSLP, as per your request a few months ago. I have made a page with the permission email here. Is there a better place for such letters?. If so feel free to move it to where it belongs. --Homerdundas 00:25, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Chopin G Minor Polonaise, Op.Posth

Dear Carolus, When you have a free moment, could you possibly retag this score? It was marked as unknown publisher (and therefore C/C/C), but I happen to own the exact edition, so I filled in the information (well, the year was a guess, but it doesn't matter because they all look the same, and there's no plate number in the scan, so I put 1951- PWM 237). Thanks in advance.--KGill 00:32, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Thematic Catalog of Tchaikovsky's works, 1898

Dear Carolus,

Thank you very much in advance for the upload of the refered book.

It will be very usefull for all who study tchaikovsky's works.

Double Reed Quartet

Hi Carolus, I would like to establish the expression "Double Reed Quartet" for Oboe, Cor Anglais, Bassoboe and Bassoon. This is next to a quartet of human voices sopran, alt, tenor and bass and therefore "standard" in some sense. Other combinations of 4 double reed players should be named explictly. I know, that this is my personal opinion, but (nearly?) all contributions at IMSLP concerning this feature are uploaded from "notenschreiber", so I may have some influence in this very special part of our musical community.

With best regards


Yes, I think the Oboe, Cor Anglais, Bass Oboe, and Basson is probably OK as the understood definition of "Double Reed Quartet", though I wonder if the version with 2 bassoons (no bass oboe) might be somwhat more common (the bass oboe or Heckelphone being a more-or-less exotic instrument (though a very beautiful one). At any rate, the exact instrumentation can be listed in the "Misc. Notes" field, so "Double Reed Quartet" is best for the hierarchy designation (5 equal signs) used for transcriptions. Your own contributions to our collection for this ensemble are the majority, so you probably know which disposition is the most popular more than me. Best Wishes, Carolus 21:56, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Editions - Bach: The Well-Tempered Clavier (BWV 846-893), BV B 25 (Busoni, Ferruccio)

Hi Carolus, I like this change: it will group all editions of one composer together. Do you think it would be a good idea to change the names of the transcription pages as well, adding a similar prefix: Transcriptions - Bach:, Transcriptions - Mozart:, and Transcriptions - Liszt, etc.? I would volunteer to undertake that, since it is a bit of editing work. --Robert.Allen 21:03, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I was thinking of that after I moved the ones last night. Like you, I think there is a real advantage in grouping all of the editions and transcriptions together in the title line-up. Carolus 21:57, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Walter Cosand and scans

Hi Carolus, I got a private note from Walter Cosand clarifying that he is not the person who scanned the files obtained from his web site. (Perhaps he is concerned that people may think he is responsible for the poor quality of some of the scans.) In any case, in my last upload of a file from his site, 6 Etudes, Op.16, BV 203 (Busoni, Ferruccio), I put "Unknown" in the "Scanned by" field and in "Misc. Notes" that the file was from his site. I suppose that will be OK procedure and perhaps he will feel more comfortable with that. (I did it the other way previously since the file upload page suggests that is where one should put the web site info. Perhaps we should consider changing that advice?). --Robert.Allen 22:41, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

That's a good idea. I'll have a look at the upload page. The Scanner field should be reserved for the person who actually scanned the score in question, if known. It is also used for typesets, where the typesetter or engraver's name is inserted. I've seen a few instances where a plate engraver's name (like C.G. Röder) is there, though I think we should eventually add a separate field for that. Carolus 22:47, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
OK, when I get a chance I'll go back and change the earlier ones. --Robert.Allen 23:38, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Deletion of file

Hello Carolus, Mr. Languillat wants the work Crevette à nez rouge (Languillat, Raphaël) to be deleted. See also his contributions / the discussion page. I remember that Feldmahler said once a file has been submitted it will be deleted only for a very good reason. But here in this case I guess the user Phrygien who created the page some time ago was not the composer and I can't see any comfirmation /grant of permission on the talk page. Therefore it's clear and we can remove it, can't we?. Just wanted to hear your opinion. BTW, a general question: supposed a composer gave his permission, posted works (tagged N!N!N!) and later withdraws it, do we have to delete the files or not? Regards, Hobbypianist 16:36, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Since this appears to be a case where the composer and copyright owner never actually gave his permission, I'll go ahead and respect his wishes that the work be deleted once I've confirmed this is the case. As for composers who did give their permission at one point - using one of the CC licenses, then later decide to take the works down (because they signed on with a publisher, for example), we are going to have to set a policy about this. I'll ask feldmahler what he thinks about this issue. Also, it might be worth starting a thread over at the forum. Carolus 18:16, 22 July 2009 (UTC)


Here's the link I promised: IMSLP:Pseudo-URLs. Do try them out. You must use the file submitter for pre-uploaded files for this, like what the Sibley page uses. Tell me if you have questions. --Feldmahler 02:10, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

P.S. In case you are wondering what happened to the site the past few hours, Davydov accidentally (and through no fault of his) overloaded the server with his huge update to the Brahms list page. I've fixed (optimized) the problem code in MediaWiki, and it should not happen again. However, regardless, a server upgrade may be necessary in less than a year because we are already starting to push the borders of what this server can do. Good thing is that servers are getting cheaper. --Feldmahler 02:10, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Erm, sorry about that! If it's any consolation I was trying to reduce the size of the Brahms page by around 93k by converting most of the original HTML to Wiki code. There are just a few (much more minor) adjustments I need to make before the page is ready and stable, but tell me if you need me to hold off at times when the server's under pressure. — P.davydov 07:34, 23 July 2009 (UTC)


Hi Carolus. I promised to get back to you about the work title issues. After trying all sorts of combinations of title/nickname/key/instrumentation/opus number, etc. over the last few months it eventually dawned on me that it's just not possible to convey all the information required in the work titles, and so it would be unproductive to go down that route. But if each composer has their own comprehensive work list, accessible through their category page, with links to the relevant works, then this should solve most of the problems. The work titles themselves can be kept as short as possible, particularly if there are opus/catalogue numbers to differentiate between otherwise identical titles.

This is what I've been trying over the last week or so with Brahms, as you can see here. The colour scheme makes it possible to see very quickly what's there and what's missing, and there are separate entries for the composer's arrangements of his own works, and for the individual pieces within each cycle (which is a difference from the existing Tchaikovsky and Dvorak lists).

There are separate tables for "Original Works" and "Arrangements/Transcriptions/Editions" to reflect the fact that works in the latter category should normally appear on another composer's workpage (although in practice some files that couldn't be split have been left as "Transcriptions - Schubert", etc., with cross references added from the 'correct' work page). This table layout could also be used for the numerous editors and arrangers who don't necessarily have their own category pages.

I kept Brahms's distinction between "Songs", "Lieder" and "Romances", trying to keep as close as possible to all the original titles. As with most composers, there are inconsistencies in the language in which his works are named, so we have "Academic Festival Overture", bur "Ein deutsches Requiem". It seemed sensible to favour English for generic titles (of which incidentally there's a handy list here), and take the other cases on their merits. There are obvious advantages if the title used happens to coincide with the one used by Amazon, and keeping the titles short also maximises the number of matches in this section (although I'm not suggesting this should be the only consideration!).

I did play around with hiding "Die", "Der", "Das", "Ein", etc. from the start of the work titles, but found that it actually made it harder to read after sorting.

Anyway, the idea for now is just to see whether this works for Brahms, and if so, whether the same principle could be employed for other composers. What do you think? — P.davydov 20:28, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for taking the time to think about this issue logically. We're very much on the same page here. The title's purpose is to serve as a concise label for a given work as much as possible. Work lists are enormously helpful in the precise identification of works. Having them also enables us to keep the actual work-page title in a concise, easily grasped format. Therefore we can stick to a simple "Cello Concerto, RV 456" for composers who wrote dozens of them (like Vivaldi) without bothering to include an endless list of particulars about starting tonality, exact instrumentation, who it was compose for, etc. Those who are looking for a piece because they remember a particular concerto was in G minor can always refer to the work list. So, I guess work lists are another area where allegroamabile can help.


Is this what I think it is?-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 22:00, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes, IMSLP gets a royalty on each copy sold. They're being priced to compete with Dover (or even less expensive if possible) also. Carolus 22:03, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
Could you tell me more? Who's doing the printing?-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 22:04, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
It's not actually our (IMSLP's) imprint, but an imprint of Serenissima Music (who will pay royalties to Project Petrucci). The literal printing is done by Lightning Source in TN, at 600 x 600 dpi. They are an "on-demand" printer. Quality is decent, provided they have a decent original to work with. Carolus 22:09, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
Awesome. I think this merits a news entry, but I don't really know enough. I like the fact that the works are really hard-to-find ones too - brings a good chance of sales.-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me
Yes, I was thinking of that. Just wanted to actually see a copy first, which arrived the other day. I see you already linked the Pelleas et Melisande score. That's the one that came, and it looks pretty good. We'll have to update it to the revised orchestration, if we manage to obtain the 1950 printing (assuming Durand didn't claim a new edition). However, that's less painful than in the old days when you had to print 1000 copies and sell them all before you could issue a revised version! BTW, IMSLP gets to suggest which titles go into the series. Serenissima has the final say, of course, but so far none have been rejected. I was wondering about opening a thread on the forum to see what we should recommend next, perhaps a poll. Carolus 22:19, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
My two cents: Schubert songs, and if we ever acquire it, Les Troyens (Because the only score available for that is the $950 Barenreiter...). I'll start up the thread and write the new entry. However, this posisbly merits some sort of explanatory thread - and feldmahler is amazing at those. -- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 22:25, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
Les Troyens was definitely one I was thinking of. Not even Kalmus has that one. Schubert songs? I would have thought that Dover had all those available. If not them, I'm sure Kalmus/Alfred or Masters has them. Carolus 22:28, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Dover does not, aside from the gesammtausgabe reprint. The news entry and forum thread are done.-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 22:30, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Actually it's Petrucci Library Press not Petrucci Library Publishing. Other than that detail, yes, it looks fine. Carolus 22:33, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

FTP Batch Submission Page

I'm going to upload a batch submission page for FTP files tomorrow. It will automatically find and fill in all files within a FTP directory to the add file page. However, it only works in alphabetic (alphanumeric) order. I don't know how much you've uploaded, but perhaps it would be a good idea to consider the sorting? For example, with something like:


That way the order will be correct when the batch submission page fills in the boxes.

The only other problem I can think of is how to deal with pre-submitted files. I think we can just change the appropriate file boxes on the add file page, so that the old file name is used instead of the new fcp:// pURL. That way the page will automatically add both old and new files to the same file template. However, all of the parts should be uploaded to the FTP regardless, so that there will be a placeholder name that can be changed in the first place.

The other option is just to resubmit all the parts and remove the previous submissions, which might be fine if there are any processing quality differences. But I'll leave that up to the uploader I think... --Feldmahler 01:15, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

The FTP batch submission page is up. If there is no link on the work page (there will be when the cache clears in <3 days), you can simply use the Sibley link and change "Special:SibleyUpload" to "Special:FCPUpload".
I've also been thinking about the ordering. I think alphabetical is fine as long as it is consistant on that particular work page. Renaming it in score order may not be worth the effort, especially since we have much more lined up to do after this project. Hence we probably should get this project done ASAP so that we can continue on instead of trying to fix every detail. This is not to hurry anyone; I just mean that we probably should take the path of least resistance. --Feldmahler 16:30, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Actually, it's much easier to put things in score order via the FTP as you've now configured it than it was previously. All you have to do is re-arrange them in correct order using the cut and paste commands. In other words, select the entire path description in the slot of the top part (flute) paste into one of the bottom (unused) slots, then re-arrange the whole thing accordingly. You can easily delete the ones that aren't needed (like the cellos). I just did it for the Beethoven Triple Concerto with no problem. Since we already have things in score order thanks to all of the cello and violin parts already uploaded by Generoso and ras1, it's thankfully not very hard to retain now. Carolus 19:00, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Incidentally, why did you change the uploader to Ottaviano on the Beethoven?-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 19:14, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
You have new messages
Hello, Carolus. You have new messages at Perlnerd666's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{newmessages}} template.

Uppercase A in 'anonymous'

How can I change 'anonymous' into 'Anonymous' at the Quadrille des Lanciers entry in the Category:Anonymous page? Coulonnus 12:08, 27 July 2009

Just click the "move" tab at the top of the page. If you don't see one, say so and an admin will gladly move it. --Feldmahler 16:30, 25 July 2009 (UTC)


It was definitely time: Artaria. Have fun.-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 04:44, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Outstanding job! A good read and most informative. Thanks, Carolus 05:06, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
Thank Grove's ;)-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 05:11, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

And you still haven't responded to my email - don't do it here (I really do pester people...)-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 05:14, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

I'll check the yahoo account when I'm done here. I've been pretty busy today. Carolus 05:15, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

In the 1 hour it's been today in your area? ;)-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 05:18, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Even then. I decided to take a break by replacing a few of the older Beethoven parts files with the new ones with higher resolution, smaller size and no metatags. Carolus 05:21, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

A break sounds good...I'm sure you've noticed from the recent changes that i've been holding down the fort until someone else came along...and now...3 users at once...and I can leave (it is 2:15, after all). Catch you early morning.-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 05:34, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Paul Decourcelle / Heinrich Tellam

Dear Carolus: sorry, maybe a style guide for such pseudonym situations would be welcome. I can't provide more information about this composer/publisher. But if the situation is too embarassing let's delete this composer from the IMSLP!

Otherwise would it be possible that Tellam shows up in the composers' category, but with a redirection to the Decourcelle page?

Off topic: in French typography you put a space between the ! character and the previous word, e.g. On dansera au Piano !


I'm wondering why you change your upload credentials to Ottaviano? --Peter talk 14:59, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

See my user talk.-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 15:06, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

I wonder however who owns the actual 'Ottaviano' user account. It's been used only in July-August 2008. Was that you, Carolus? Or are you attributing your contributions to some unrelated user? --Leonard Vertighel 15:33, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Read further on the talk page, Leonard, and all shall be clear ;)-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 15:35, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

See, this is Perlnerd.Ottaviano 15:37, 27 July 2009 (UTC)


Um...I don't think that leonard is a bureaucrat...only Peter and Edward.-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 22:50, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, you're right. I'll move to Peter's page. Carolus 00:57, 28 July 2009 (UTC)


Talk:Muzgiz Daphnis 03:57, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Title:Costanza e fortezza

Hi Corolus... would this be OK to upload?

Title:Costanza e fortezza Composer: Johann Joseph Fux Editor:Wellesz, Egon Joseph (1885-1974) Publisher: Akademische Druckund Verlagsantalt, 1959 Series: Denkmäler der Tonkunst in Österreich

from Univeristy Music Editions microfiche set 1970s

Probably a reprint of original 1910 edition.


New Template

I created Template:PopSection to try to stop people from creating redundant sectional work pages. I implemented it for Le Cygne (Saint-Saëns, Camille), as an example. Feel free to mess with it!-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 20:03, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Good idea. It's always annoying when someone sets up a new page without looking. Carolus 02:42, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Guess what

Again. Archive. You get WAY too many messages ;)-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 13:05, 29 July 2009 (UTC)


This pulled my attention from the Walker / Tertis score. I added on public domain a paragraph from the NAFTA document. We can conclude that... the pre-1923 works follow no less favorable treatment in Canada?! Favorable means more protection. I think this means that for example a US +95 cannot switch to +50 in Canada. But a work that has no protection at all, cannot receive less favorable treatment... so a <1923 US work would stay PD in Canada in my interpretation. Do you still have an attorney at hand? He could solve by this a lot of US-only cases.--Peter talk 22:45, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

OK, as I understand it, the "no less favorable" treatment under NAFTA means that an American composer like Henry Cowell (died 1965) is still under protection in Canada (life plus 50) even though some works of his are free in the USA (the country of origin) due to publication before 1923. So just as a Canadian composer who lived until 1965 would still be protected in Canada even if a work was first published in 1915, the same rubric applies to the citizen of the NAFTA country. Conversely, a Canadian composer who died after 1943 would be eligible for "restoration" in the USA even if a work published after 1922 without a notice (automatic PD in USA under the pre-1978 law) - despite the fact that no restoration is available for US citizens who published works without notice. This would not apply to any non-US or non-Mexican composer, but only to US composers dead less than 50 years. Thus Rachmaninoff, who became a US citizen a month before he died (though he maintained a residence in the USA from 1920) would still be free in Canada - even though a few works issued after 1922 remain protected in the USA. Carolus 04:47, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Publisher Question

So look at Romance for Violin and Orchestra, Op.50 (Beethoven, Ludwig van) - OK, I really don't think that the full score is Breitkopf - that engraving does not look like them.-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 01:36, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

It's Breitkopf. They changed their instrumentation typeface on the first page from what it was originally in the Beethoven complete works series for a reissue or an offprint. This is actually fairly common. They are still doing it, believe it or not. Carolus 04:56, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
Oh, wow. I can believe that...I guess they just like to keep people guessing. But, the brackets arent there like they normally are, the final double bar is normal, etc. - it looks to me like a re-engraving of theirs.-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 17:00, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Tui St. George Tucker

Done!-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 02:53, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks! Looks good. We can now point to her area as a model for new composers. Carolus 05:51, 31 July 2009 (UTC)