User talk:Carolus/archive15


Chopin Complete Works Edition by PWM

Hello Carolus, some time ago I scanned the works for piano and orchestra, published 1960/61. I'm not quite sure about the cr status since this is the 3rd edition and edited by Kazimierz Sikorski. But actually, I can't see much editing work in the piano part. Do you happen to know more about this edition? Hopefully it's permissible, Chopin deserves some scores to his 200th birthday. Hobbypianist 21:06, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

I will look around the reprint places for these to see if any have been reprinted. The problem with this edition is that PWM had an agent in the USA who was good about registering and renewing the copyright claims on at least some of the volumes, which throws those volumes into the cursed [TB] category. Carolus 04:00, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

I've uploaded the works for piano and orchestra now and left the tag U for USA, please have a look at them. Hmm, I hope not all of them get a [TB]... Hobbypianist 20:47, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

I think most of what you have is going to be OK. I'll have to check for renewals of course. Carolus 22:18, 9 February 2010 (UTC) UPDATE (egg all over face): Looks like PWM renewed all the piano and orchestra volumes - and the US Copyright Office was OK with it. Ouch! Carolus 23:26, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
damned [TB].... but still one point I don't get, why are for example the Cello Sonata Op.65 and Op.3 PD in the USA? If you write that PWM renewed all the piano volumes does the renewal only refer to reissues or why is the the recently uploaded Polonaise Op.61 ok? I ask because actually I intended to post more works (for ex. vol.18, plate PWM 1725, 1957) but with [TB] it doesn't make sense. Regards. Hobbypianist 11:08, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
A couple of the piano solo volumes have been reprinted by Dover. Those are the ones I've (tentatively) approved with a "C" tag. PWM renewed all of the piano and orchestra volumes (19-21). I cannot check the renewal status online of any volumes issued before 1950. I'm planning to do a complete, thorough review of the Chopin-PWM editions next week. If I find a renewal, it will have to fall into the [TB] jail. If it's pre-1950, I'll probably end up tagging it "C". If I find one with no renewal and a reprint by Dover or Kalmus still available, I'll tag it "V." Things are a bit too chaotic and inconsistent there right now. I was really quite horrified to see that the copyright office granted PWM (a state agency) a renewal on these. It's a very bad precedent. Carolus 03:42, 14 February 2010 (UTC)


did fingerings here as Ralph Theo Misch kindly pointed out, and you tagged it V*. Is there something I'm missing? (nice fingerings, though!)-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 00:30, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

So those are his fingerings here, as opposed to those of an earlier editor like Gruetzmacher? I note that it's a Peters w/o notice, which seals its fate as far as the USA is concerned. However, if the fingerings are actually original contributions by Stutschewsky, it would appear we'd have to get rid of it. I think this is a case where the editor info was supplied after the tagging. Carolus 00:57, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

I'll look into it...never played this particular sonata before...-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 00:58, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Well, it's completely different (like, pitches) from the other two on the page...does that constitute an original arrangement on the page on our part? ;)-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 01:00, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Oopss....he reordered the movements...which actually also probably constitutes "originality" (read: mangling)...-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 01:01, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

OK, I'll re-tag C/V/C until we get some clarification. Boccherini was a cellist, no? Is it possible that some fingerings are his own? Someone w/access to the Peters edition and Stutschewsky's preface might be able to shed some light in what exactly this edition is. The fact that it is so different could be the result of consulting different source material. Carolus 01:02, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

It is, in general, rare to see fingerings by Boccherini, or any other composer of the period (have you ever seen any fingerings by Mozart in his piano sonatas? Or Haydn? Beethoven only has a few).
If you look into the edition, it specifically says that he reordered it.-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 01:40, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

OK, If that's so, it's an arrangement - which means it should be deleted. BTW, what's going on with the site? I got a string of 500 errors before. Carolus 02:02, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

I get that occasionally...something about the server capacity being good, but the programming needs to be somewhat redone, if I remember. I like today's featured score(s?) :)-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 02:07, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Have we really go the entire Schumann edition? That's great! Carolus 02:09, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Thank ivdruiz for that and the complete beethoven (first editions inclusive or manuscripts) thats coming up later in the month.-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 03:09, 2 February 2010 (UTC)


Hey Carolus, this page contains no files, and is not in PD, so I would suggest deleting it, unless anyone knows anything about it?--Varnis 20:07, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

It's new...I would expect the creator will upload soon.-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 20:45, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
Fair enough, was going to tag it, but it seemes a little weird is all--Varnis 23:31, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Guess he hasn't finished the piece yet! Carolus 03:54, 3 February 2010 (UTC)


Archive, Les Troyens (?), Hirsch, Catalogue de la Musique Imprimé etc., Chamber Music Project (?), Weber Symphony No. 1 parts, PLP Ma Vlast (?), phew... All out of the way for your enjoyment :)-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 02:00, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

You pokes duly noted. You can remove the Catalogue de la Musique Imprimé from the list, as the librarian who does all my ILL's said that one is a "Reference" book that is never allowed out of the building in most libraries. Carolus 04:04, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

"Great!"-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 17:32, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Would you mind sharing the details about the Merton Project?-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 22:26, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

I'll be making an announcement on the forum soon. We're in the process of finalizing how he wishes for the project to be listed, how to handle the typesets wrt CC licenses, etc. It consists of about 1300 chamber music titles, mainly trios, quartets and quintets. Most are scans of older parts (with some scores). He has these files set up in imposition order for printing onto A3 sheets, 2-up. This would be tremendously convenient for those with printers capable of running A3 (approx. 11.69 x 16.54 inches). I think some might find the imposition order daunting and would prefer their files in simple page order (like nearly everything here is), so I'm wondering if the project might be more beneficial if files were ultimately posted in both formats. Since you're the grand master of the template, I'm expecting your services will be needed very soon. I'll contact you with the exact wording, etc. Carolus 22:35, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Sounds fantastic. We can just use our FTP form as-is then...1300 titles of what sort?-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 22:38, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Yes, we should be able to use the FTP. All chamber music, ranging from duos to octets. Mostly trios - quintets in parts. What's really nice is that this is stuff that can actually be used to perform from. A very fine collection. I'll have to write up a little description of how to deal with the imposition for printing that can be incorporated into a template. Carolus 22:42, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

OK...Haydn quartet parts, here we come! :)-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 22:47, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Mazurka, Op.7 No.5 and Valse, Op.70 No.1

Hey Carolus, the Mazurka, Op.7 No.5 and Valse, Op.70 No.1. are not my typeset or edition, but my friend's. His name is Emir D. The files are scan's that I took from his own typeset. So, there is no copyright problems. Luciosilla 12:11, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the info! Let's be sure to give him the credit, as they are nice typesets. Carolus 00:16, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Berlioz Les Troyens update

Per a discussion on the forum, what's the status with this work? Did you actually get your hands on those scores? Daphnis 06:12, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

I did indeed. They are on my scanning pile - which has grown quite large. About 600 pages. Kalmus reprints of Choudens and Breitkopf in pocket-score format. OK printing considering age and originals (especially Choudens). I hope to have them up by late spring. Carolus 07:03, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
Good news indeed. We look forward to seeing them. In the mean time, I'm going to finish the remaining outstanding works in the old Berlioz edition. Daphnis 07:05, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
Since they're small, I can probably scan these two-up, which will make it a bit less grueling. BTW, have you tried out the Scan-Tailor software? I understand it automatically de-warps things. I posted a message over at the DIY scanner forum but haven't had time to go and look to see if they posted further answers. The inventor of the software seems to think that correcting all staff lines to true horizontal and all bar lines to true vertical then shifting all other symbols proportionally can be done. Looks promising. Carolus 07:11, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Or if you feel inclined, if you want to snail mail them I'd be glad to scan them on my new equipment now that I have help and a better workflow (allowing me to scan ca. 1,000 pages a week). Just putting that out there. I did try out ScanTailor and tried to contact the author without a response. I can't seem to figure out a way how to deactivate all the other features of the software besides deskewing and despeckling. I tried everything conceivable without any luck. I don't want anything cropped or rotated, simply deskewed with occasional despeckling, but apparently you can't deactivate modules from running. It looks very promising anyway, I just wish I could incorporate it into my workflow. Daphnis 07:16, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

I will definitely keep that in mind! The Merton chamber music project is going to require some time on my part just organizing all the files so volunteers can upload from the FTP server. Thanks for the offer. I'll let you know. Carolus 07:20, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Mozart K.486 Parts

Hi, this is just a notice about a few problems with the files on the FTP:

  • Timpani - actually the first page of the Cello/Bass part
  • Bassoon, p.3 - missing staff lines about 2/3 the way down the page
  • Trumpet, p.3 - same except on the very bottom

Hope these can be fixed. Thanks, KGill talk email 16:44, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

My previous comment obviously false. More files, please! We're running very low...-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 19:33, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Buuuuuump.-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 03:59, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Company here for the weekend. Late Sunday night - maybe, if they leave early.... Carolus 04:01, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Fair enough...Borodin himself always had in the steppes of central asia first ;)-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 04:02, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Everything done except dohnanyi (2011 anyways) and Mozart (see above) stuff! :)-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 03:26, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. I'll try to get some more uploaded tomorrow. Carolus 03:56, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

One more thing: Boccherini G.493 looks like it's missing cello/bass parts (I'm assuming they exist). Thanks, KGill talk email 21:48, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

And we still need the weber No.1 and the Brahms Serenade No.1 (don't know how that slipped through)-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 21:51, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

And the 2nd page of the horn part for Dittersdorf's 3rd Symphony seems to have some kind of defect - the second stave from the top seems to have almost completely disappeared. KGill talk email 18:03, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Student ditty, Gaudeamus igitur (Anonymous)

Hi Carolus, this is one of those four songs brahms used in his Academic Festival Overture, Op.80. With uploading the other three (all with German texts) I'll wait until tomorrow, after recognizing what you've done with it  ;-) --Ralph Theo Misch 23:49, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Mendelssohn scans


Thanks for the continuing contributions to Elijah & Paulus! I wonder if you noticed my query on the talk page and whether there's an easy fix: the Paulus vocal score has the same problem. Richard Mix 11:25, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Theodor de Witt (1823–1855)?

Would you mind sharing the source for these dates? Is it the same person that edited the Palestrina complete works? (If so, Haberl would have used his work posthumously). Regards, Philip Legge @ © talk 01:12, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm not Carolus, but LoC has them at this link. It says on the same page that he was the editor for the Palestrina. KGill talk email 01:41, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
I wondered about the citation. Perhaps he had a son by the same name who was the actual editor, or perhaps he actually died in 1888 instead of 1855. Strange. Carolus 05:18, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Hedien Woodwind Sextet

I just uploaded files for a Woodwind Sextet. (Composer page: Hedien, Mark; work title: Woodwind Sextet No 1. I am the composer (Mark Hedien), and it's fine to list them as public domain or creative commons, whichever you prefer. Let me know if you need anything additional. As always, thanks so much for helping out. --Mark Hedien

No problem. I'll list them as Creative Commons Attribution Non-commerical 3.0. This way, others cannot sell the files on Ebay, but must give them away at no charge. Regards, Carolus 07:42, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Jede Woche Musik

Hi Carolus,
what shall we do with that publication? Anita Beimert has got about three complete years (Jahrgänge) of it. The edition seems to be rare and interesting, but looked at from the point of view of PD often problematic. Shall we continue with it? Regards from --Ralph Theo Misch 01:42, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
P.S.: Do you think it's a good idea to put an overview of MUSICA-DIVINA-contributions on my user page?

It's OK to continue adding these, but we have to consider the presence (or abscence) of a copyright notice in each case. The excerpt from Richard Strass' Intermezzo, posted yesterday, had a fully valid copyright notice. In order for a 1924 copyright claim to be valid in the USA, the notice has to be 1) located on the title page or on the first score page; and 2) have a valid notice containing the following elements: a) the word "Copyright", the abbreviation "Copr.", or the symbol "©", b) the year of first publication (of that particular item), and c) the name of the copyright claimant (usually the publisher). An item failing to meet these criteriae is public domain in the USA unless an NIE (Notice of Intent to Enforce) was filed between 1996 and 1998. Items public domain in the country of origin by 1995 were not eligible for NIE "restoration." So, if you see a valid notice like the one on the piano excerpt from Intermezzo, it would be best to skip that item. Carolus 02:31, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your answer! It could spare us some futile labor. Best wishes --Ralph Theo Misch 22:04, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

That's what we hope to do, at least :) Carolus 07:11, 17 February 2010 (UTC)


See the mod forum...-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 03:43, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

OK. I saw Daphnis' post earlier in the NLA thread. BTW, you've got files. Carolus 06:25, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Noted (see uploads...haven't we already done the orchestral suites?...and thanks for the HHA info when applicable XD)...Dittersdorf but no K622?????? :)-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 03:00, 19 February 2010 (UTC)


Hi Carolus,
as this piece will not be PD EU, I tried to translate the title into English. Even in Germany not everybody would understand this cloudy word today. Ment is a chat between a wife and her husband (domestical chat?). Regards from --Ralph Theo Misch 01:53, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Hi, Does the German refer to a little argument or bickering? If so, the equivalent English idiom is "Marital Spat". Perhaps it would be best to just title the piece as Musical Joke if there's no English equivalent. Yes, it would be Non-PD EU. Carolus 02:04, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Let's read the score - just a moment... --Ralph Theo Misch 02:07, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Ha! Looks like it could definitely qualify as a "spat" (minor argument or bickering). Carolus 02:09, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Well, the end of page 1 and the beginning of p. 2 sounds like an argument between the wife (oboe, chatter box) and the flattering husband (bassoon). Then the bassoon begins to argue, too. - But I think Musical Joke would be the best. --Ralph Theo Misch 02:19, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

And the Polka: A dance of appeasement? --Ralph Theo Misch 02:24, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Yes, you're right! It's a spat. - Before the Polka begins, the Oboe shall play "sehr einschmeichelnd" (much flattering). --Ralph Theo Misch 02:33, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Unfortunately I have to end for this night. Looking forward to your decision!

Publisher Info

Could you look at the C.P.E. Bach Wq. 183/3 I posted? I can't figure it out.-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 03:06, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

OK! Carolus 03:29, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Great! Thanks for Benvenuto, BTW, and I echo Daphnis's Les Troyens remark ;)-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 03:44, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

And the Rossini I just uploaded?-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 06:26, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks07:07, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

2 Unknown works by Mendelssohn?

Hello Carolus,
it's not urgent, so feel free to answer me, when you have the time.
I don't know what to do with that file sent by Anita Beimert (see here):
The scientist Hirschberg suspects that he discovered two unknown works by Mendelssohn. The pieces themselves are facsimiles taken from a book from 1833 (Berlin: G. Reimer). But what's about the copyright of the article by Hirschberg? Shall I isolate the pieces and put them on different work pages? Regards from --Ralph Theo Misch 00:26, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

The article you linked has no copyright notice, so it's probably free in the USA. As for Canada and the EU, what are Hirschberg's dates? If he died before 1960, the article is free in Canada, if before 1940, it's free in the EU as well. If you isolated the pieces and placed them on separate work pages, there would be no copyright issue of any kind as 1925 is too far back for any Editio Princeps claims to still be in play. Carolus 07:19, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Hirschberg's dates are 1867-1929. So tomorrow I'll create two work pages each including the article and a respective typeset file. BTW - the 'poems' are indescribable :-((( The music really seems to be by Mendelssohn. --Ralph Theo Misch 00:17, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Done. I tried to make a short summary of the article by Hirschberg. Would you please correct my offences against the English language? Many thanks! --Ralph Theo Misch 00:20, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Excellent and interesting discovery! I'll be glad to make the English a bit more idiomatic. Carolus 02:50, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Many thanks for your help! It's instructive for me to compare the versions! --Ralph Theo Misch 22:48, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Busoni edition of WTC on Bach work pages

Hi Carolus, I saw you added Petri and Mugellini as co-editors of the B&H Joh. Seb. Bach Klavierwerke edition of Bach's WTC. Busoni was the sole editor of the two WTC volumes, although B&H listed Petri and Mugellini on the title pages, since they edited other volumes in the 25-volume series. You are not alone. This practice of B&H has caused much confusion in subsequent attributions for the various volumes. The attribution to Busoni as sole editor for this particular volume is indicated further down on the title page. FYI, a complete list of the 25 volumes, and who edited which volume, is at [1]. --Robert.Allen 00:21, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for this info, Robert! It's rather confusing - not only does the title page have this generic credit, but there are literally dozens of OCLC listings which include Petri and Mugellini as co-editors. To make matters worse, Mugellini apparently made his own edition, which has been re-engraved and issued by both PWM and Muzyka. I could not find any OCLC reference to an earlier Mugellini edition. The PWM looks like it could be a reprint with PWM's titles and a Polish translation of the performance directions added. Carolus 06:15, 24 February 2010 (UTC)


Poke - Mozart K.486 Parts ;)
and we're (somehow!) running low again o.O!-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 17:45, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

I'll check the folders here, but that's pretty much it for the Orchestral Music parts. There might be a few stragglers, but there were also a number of works by Stravinsky, Milhaud which are not possible to post. (They will be made available over at Sibley.) Carolus 19:16, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
Another thing: on page 2 of the clarinet part for Handel's Saul overture, it looks like the logo wasn't completely erased. KGill talk email 01:55, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

I'll harp my Weber Symphony no. 1 one last time and the Mozart...and then be very pleased! On to Chamber Music (and Wagner eventually ;)-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 03:54, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Finally tracked down the Weber - an early Baerenreiter. The Bassoon part to K.486 was bad as received from the OMP team, no can fix. I'll see about fixing that Saul part. Carolus 06:11, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
Thanks. And too bad about K.486...I guess the remaining Boccherini and Dittersdorf are in the same boat? KGill talk email 17:15, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
If there are defects in the remaining Boccherini and Dittersdorf parts, there's little we could do about it as they were most likely present in the OMCDL original files. A ghost-logo on isolated pages can usually be fixed by exporting the page(s) as TIFFs, opening in an image program (Photoshop in my case) and removing the logo image. If things are missing from the original scan (missing staves, sections, pages), there's no way to fix it. The bassoon part of K.486 is clearly defective. It could have been a scanning error, or even a printing error reproduced in the scan by OMCDL. Carolus 21:25, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
Well, the Boccherini folder is actually missing cello/bass parts (if I recall correctly). Dittersdorf just has a partially defective horn part, so I guess I'll go ahead and upload it with a note on the page. As for K.486 - I just remembered that the timpani part is really the first page of the cello/bass part. Was that also OMDCL's error? KGill talk email 23:33, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
IN K.486: Page 1 of the 2nd Bassoon is missing a staff, and the Timpani part is non-existent. The D-minor Boccherini has both Cello and Bass parts (separate ones). G.493 is the one with the Missing Cello/Bass. Carolus 04:40, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Great. Could you upload the Weber and the Brahms Serenade No. 1 now please? :)-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 03:13, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks!-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 05:26, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Were they inadvertently deleted from the FTP site? BTW, in talking with Feldmahler last night about our performance issues, he thinks we'll be needing to shut down the FTP area until June. I'll be copying anything there that we might need to eventually put up here. If there's anything there you want to make a copy of, please do so in the next day or two. Thanks, Carolus 05:30, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

I think so...not really sure....and I'm fine (and Operalala seems to have stopped with vocal scores...and everything...temporarily). Thanks for the notice. I guess the project should be finished by the ides of march then ;)-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 05:32, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Definitely! We'll have to delay the Merton Project until June, but that will give you time to make us some nice templates. I'll be contacting Theo Wyatt about the delay as well. Carolus 05:35, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Great! Haydn SQs can wait, I guess...and it will be easier to finish the tagging project without KGill and I otherwise occupied ;)
What kind of templates will be needed?-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 05:37, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Something similar to the SibleyProject template. i'll be in touch later about the exact wording. We'll want two, I think. One giving the name of the project (like Sibley), the other with Scanner credits for Theo Wyatt. Carolus 05:40, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

OK.-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 05:42, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

And...8 more! Glad this project is ending...senza wagner :)-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 06:07, 28 February 2010 (UTC)


Merton...even better than I thought!-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 06:09, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Catalogue...remarkable...-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 06:11, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Lots of things there we don't have - especially parts. BTW, I found a score for the Dohnanyi, Op.25 which I'll upload in a few minutes. Carolus 06:13, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! What about Les Troyens ;) ;)?-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 06:20, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Mr. Daphnis will be getting a package from me in the next couple of weeks. I have to attend to my "day job" for the next month or two very intensively. Carolus 06:27, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Good enough :). Who doesn't like getting Berlioz in the mail? ;)-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 06:29, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Enescu verification

Hi Carolus, I'm interested in pursuing several larger works by Enescu (down the road) and wanted to double-check that those works, which are numerous, published by the state entity known as Editura Muzicala a Uniunii Compozitorilor din Republica Socialista România during the 60s-70s are indeed PD. Among these are the larger piano works (quartets, quintet) and the 3 symphonies. Thanks. Daphnis 05:41, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

If they were first publications, we have a potential problem in Canada since said first publication may have taken place within the 50 year term following his death. (My inclination would be to tag them "C" and see if anyone barks.) I assume all of these were published without a notice, or with a defective notice, which enhances the chance of their being free in the USA. One possible problem would be if there was a simultaneous issue with a western publisher like Salabert or Eschig (I know there was in a few cases). I am fairly certain the first symphony is free as it is presently in the Kalmus catalog. Carolus 05:48, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

Yep, ok thanks. Daphnis 05:51, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

I'll take away from this that any works published by said agency will, irrespective of imprinted date, be issued a 'C' for the US. If that's the case, then I'll get my hands on some of the larger chamber pieces for starters. Daphnis 03:33, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
The 3 symphonies are coming soon (2nd immediately). The first is unquestionably free while the other 2 were co-issued with Salabert, but were performed and recorded before the publications. I plan on tagging them as verified with the urtext stamp for Canada and "checked" for the US unless someone barks. Even though some of his works were co-issued with Salabert, many were registered incorrectly or sport defective copyright notices. EDIT: Actually I forgot that, at least in the case of the 2nd, was issued 3 years after Salabert's. Daphnis 23:16, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Jules Clémandh

Hi Carolus,
the publishing dates of the pieces Madrigal - 4e. Pièce pour Piano (Clémandh, Jules) and 4 Pièces pour Piano (Clémandh, Jules) are stamped. I don't know wether by the publisher or by the "Dépot Légal". So I wrote n.d. (ca....). Regards from --Ralph Theo Misch 14:26, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

You were correct to put "n.d.: The "depot legal" is merely the date the scanned item was received by the BNF. Could this be the fourth of his 4 Pieces for piano? If so, it should be moved to the other page, where we have No.1. Carolus 22:57, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

According to the title page the fourth of the 4 Pieces is Nocturne. I think Madrigal is from another collection. I'll try to find it out. --Ralph Theo Misch 23:15, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I just saw that when I looked at the title page for the "Four Pieces". We'll just leave it as you have it now until additional information surfaces. Carolus 23:17, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

Nothing I've found out (, worldcat, Hofmeister,,, google). Mysterious - mere the composer's name: at least another pseudonyme? I came across Monsieur Clémandh when I planned to upload his piano transcription of Paul Lacome's La Nouba from Suite Africaine. PD US or not - another brain-teaser for me...--Ralph Theo Misch 00:16, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

USA copyright is a "brain teaser" even for those of us who have grown up with it. It's probably the world's most complicated and labyrinthine copyright law. Canada's is a model of simplicity by comparison. Carolus 05:37, 28 February 2010 (UTC)