User talk:Carolus/archive17


12 Organ Pieces, Op.7 (Müller, Friedrich)

Hello Carolus, I really could't find out anything about that composer. The half of the German population was called Müller. Friedrich was teacher and organist in Kachenburg or Hachenburg; the half of the teachers were also organists. I think he lived about 1800-1870. Best regards --Ralph Theo Misch 00:39, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Presumably we found the same page: : I've doubts about that it's "my" Friedrich Müller, because there's no remark regarding his job as an organist. I fear Organ-Müller is even more unknown than Woodwind-Müller... --Ralph Theo Misch 09:45, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
Actually, mine came from a 1938 Macmillan Dictionary I have here which contains a large number of obscure composers. It appeared to be about the right time period, but - since Müller is a very popular German surname (I know at least 3 here in the USA) - it's anyone's guess. Carolus 02:42, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Tomorrow I'll upload some Organ Preludes by L. (Ludwig?) Böhmer. Probably - like Fr. Müller - another organ playing "Dorfschullehrer" ("village school teacher"). To give you a short impression of this German species of the 19. century: Do you know "Teacher Lämpel" from Wilhelm Busch's Max and Moritz? - [1] ;) --Ralph Theo Misch 00:33, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

I think it's not Böhmer, but Johann Ludwig Böhner. On page 3 (5) there's the notice (below): Böh. Org. I. Heft. I've found something fitting at Führer durch die Orgel-Litteratur ([2], page n49 (34). --Ralph Theo Misch 23:34, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Arrangement headings (Liszt)

Hi Carolus. When you changed the headings on the Liszt symphonic poems from "For 2 Pianos (Liszt)" to "For 2 Pianos, S.640 (Liszt)", did you notice the "Unknown arrangement tag" categories appearing at the bottom of each page?  :-) This is because it throws out Feldmahler's arrangement auto-tagging system, and a few weeks ago I went through all these Liszt headings to fix them. Now it appears that you've broken them all again (!!!), could you clean up the mess? :-) Thanks — P.davydov 08:12, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

As an aside, is it possible to put a catalogue number after the parentheses (i.e. 'For 2 Pianos (Liszt), S.640'), or does that still break it? (I was wondering because I noticed you changed all the Villa-Lobos headings a while ago ;-) ) KGill talk email 13:36, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
Unfortunately that causes an error as well. The auto-tagger can cope with "For instruments (arranger)" or just "For instruments" (without the arranger's name), but anything more just confuses it — P.davydov 14:20, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
Oops! Sorry I dodn't notice it breaking the arrangement tags. I thought that keeping the catalog number outside the parens would not interfere - I was wrong obviously. Carolus 05:05, 3 April 2010 (UTC).


Have you seen this yet? Try it (might need a dictionary ;)...wonderful...
if you have, we should probably stick it on the forums so that people use it.-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 03:42, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Looks like it will be a very useful supplement for MusicSack. It didn't have any info for Fritz Hoffmann, who edited a number of things for Breitkopf (like the Arlesienne and Carmen suites). Carolus 04:29, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

CR test

Hi, I sent you an email about this (yesterday actually)... :-) Do you have the file for the test (the link on the site is unfortunately broken), and would you be willing to check my answers on it? Thanks for your time. KGill talk email 17:34, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Carolus checks that email "infrequently," by the way :)-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 01:34, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Did you already point him (KGill) in the right place for the tezt? I think you'll make a great addition to the CR team, KGill. Carolus 02:58, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Carolus, the link is broken. I can't find the test on the site.
I think I can figure out most of the questions from my answers, but I can only remember one of the practical examples.-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 02:59, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
OK, I think I saved a copy of it somewhere. I'll look for it later tonight. Carolus 03:01, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Hello again, and thanks for your confidence in me :-) I was just wondering, have you had any luck finding your saved copy of the file yet? Thanks, KGill talk email 00:34, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Ironically, the link is blocked in the same way that scores marked [TB] or [B] are... KJG, check your e-mail ;-) Philip Legge @ © talk 01:04, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
UPDATE: Test #1 posted to the Shostakovich fan (judging by his e-mail addy) :-)

DSCH-ASCH-BACH-SCHA...would make a fanTAStic password :)-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 02:40, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Any reason for the (_@/) mutation being added to your nom de wiki? PML

More of a "why not"-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 02:51, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

I do not have a copy here, unfortunately. It appears that Philip has saved the day here. (Thanks) Carolus 05:25, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
I have now sent you an email with my answers; hope you have time to check them. If you'd like, I could email you a copy of the test as well (if you reply to the email with the answers, that is). Thanks, KGill talk email 20:57, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Could you please go ahead and grade the test? I'm sick of tagging by the 100s ;)-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 02:54, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

I have not received any e-mail from you. Please send your answers and the test itself to or Thanks, Carolus 04:50, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
All right, I sent it to the second address. Thank you. KGill talk email 13:21, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
Give this man a CR badge, please. He passed with a perfect score. Carolus 02:38, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Schwanengesang for voice and guitar

What is the CR status of this? I can't even find Werckmeister anywhere (although it seems MBLO is missing Andreas Werckmeister...not good)-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 02:51, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

My 1938 dictionary gives his birth date only - 1873. C/C/C is probably the most logical tag for now. No "c" in the last name, BTW Carolus 02:56, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Ah...although it still turns up empty! :) (vindication!...?... -.-)
thanks.-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 02:58, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Monteverdi: Poppea

I have noticed that we currently have all three scores put as vocal scores. I wonder whether it is more correct to put them as full scores. On the one hand, these are the versions as Monteverdi wrote them, there is no fuller score available which is not a modern adaption. On the other hand, at least at some points, these scores have some instruments accompanying the voices. Do you have any suggestions how to deal with such cases (basically the same applies to operas by Cavalli)? --BoccaccioTalk Email 08:40, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

I expect you are correct - at least for the manuscript score and the Malipiero edition. I think the Muzyka score is probably a vocal score, though I haven't looked through the entire thing. Carolus 04:10, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Music for Shakespeare's 'Twelfth night or what you will' (Humperdinck, Engelbert)

Dear Carolus, the dates 1875-194? of Otto Wittenbecher I've found here [3] and here [4]. Do you know if the "4" is only a conjecture? Thanks --Ralph Theo Misch 22:00, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Sorry to take so long in answering - sometimes life gets too busy! The 4 is an educated guess (conjecture) based on a search via OCLC which showed a drop off in publications after the 1940s. Carolus 23:35, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

I know a thing or two about that (busyness of life). Thanks for your answer! --Ralph Theo Misch 23:45, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

P.S.: KGill changed 'Carolus Proske' to 'Carl Proske' - what a pity ;) But I follow his lead.
I only changed it to Carl because that's what LoC Authorities gives his name as. You can change it back if you want ;-) KGill talk email 00:58, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Carl is correct, of course! I took the Latin version from the front cover of the books, where everything is written in Latin - couldn't keep back (?) that little allusion ;-) --Ralph Theo Misch 10:10, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Non-commercial license

And thank you for looking out. I wouldn't mind people charging admission to a concert using my typesets, but the copying and selling would really bug me. Thank you for making me aware of that. Alonso del Arte 22:20, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Souvenirs de Londres (Burgmüller, Friedrich)

Hi Carolus, it's not urgent - I don't know why the color scan has grown up from about 6 MB to 12 MB after rotating it to landscape. May I upload the 6 MB file and you change it to landscape next days? Thanks --Ralph Theo Misch 00:19, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

That's strange. Rotation should not effect the file size. Hmmm.... I'll take a look. I could not make it smaller - even with Acrobat Pro's optimization command (unless I wanted to reduce the resolution, which wasn't a good idea). Carolus 04:14, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Uploaded. Good luck and many thanks! --Ralph Theo Misch 23:04, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
P.S.: I'm not sure, if I should press that fragile book unto the scanner any more - though the alternate method isn't fully developed: [5] :-(

Talk:Cello Concerto No.1, Op.33 (Saint-Saëns, Camille)

Comments?-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 02:49, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks anyways. The Herbert that Ottaviano uploaded reminds me about a certain Hirsch ;)-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 01:41, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Séverac - Pièce pour orgue, violoncelle et ? (violon)

Dear Carolus, I don't know why you change this piece into "Pièce pour orgue et violon". Autograph clearly mention Orgue , violoncelle and noyhing for the high voice. Have a good day. Squin 22 April 2010

Did you read my comment on the piece discussion page? The "violoncelle" is probably an organ-stop noted in the lowest staff (pedal) of the organ part (note there is also an "oboe" indication in the upper staff of the organ part on page 2). The instrument is most likely a violin since it only goes down to the lowest note on the violin (G below middle C) and employs the term "re" (for the D-string). It's somewhat confusing, and the music found in the pedal staff could be played on cello, but it also makes sense as an organ pedal part. Take a look at the file and see what I mean. Carolus 22:21, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Sure, your analysis is luminous. Squin 23 April 2010

Messe du Sacré-Coeur de Jésus, (Gounod, Charles)

Thanks! - My choirs will derive pleasure from that piece! --Ralph Theo Misch 23:18, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

You're most welcome! Carolus 01:29, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

New Piece Added To Hedien, Mark Composer Page

I added a collection of short keyboard pieces to the page. I am the composer, and these are original contributions. I think I did the Creative Commons selection properly this time, so you probably don't have to change anything.

Thanks! --Mark Hedien

Thorough-Bass, Harmony and Composition (Albrechtsberger, Johann Georg)

Hi Carolus, sorry for the 'Seyfritz' - it was untidiness. I've found the german original 'Gründliche Anweisung zur Composition' and want to upload it tomorrow (Monday). Shall I have to move the page to that title then? - I'd sooner not. --Ralph Theo Misch 00:08, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I think that books should appear under their original title. Go ahead and move the page whenever you wish. Carolus 00:10, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

OK - thanks! --Ralph Theo Misch 00:12, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Phantasie und Fuge für Orgel, Op.135b (Reger, Max)

Dear Carolus, I don't know, if I've translated Elsa Reger's words correctly. From this manuscript you can see that Reger at first only wrote the notes. For the publisher he added the dynamics, articulations, registrations etc. (red). I don't know from whom the remarks by pencil are - the publisher?: e.g. Querformat = landscape, Copyright Simrock etc....--Ralph Theo Misch 00:46, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

That's a really interesting manuscript! Thanks for the upload. Carolus 04:48, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Bach French Suites (reprint vs. reengraving)

Hi, I was just curious about the fact that you marked it as a reprint when it says on the last page that it was completely reengraved from the Peters edition but with minimal differences? Is it close enough to be the same thing? Thanks, KGill talk email 00:45, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

The file I was just looking at was not re-engraved at all, but clearly a reprint. I'll go ahead and look at the all the pages just in case they re-engraved a few. I stopped scrolling through at about page 30. Carolus 00:48, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, you're that I look more closely at the engraving style, it clearly wasn't engraved by Muzyka. Never mind... KGill talk email 00:51, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
OK, now I see they say it was "copied" from the Peters edition by Czerny et al. Guess they meant that term quite literally! I expect they just made some minor corrections and/or updates to a reprint. Interesting. Carolus 00:52, 30 April 2010 (UTC)


Hi, what are the differences between the different copyrights? thanks, Aurora.borealis 03:24, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Attribution only allows the E-bay sellers to copy and sell your scores. Attribution Non-commercial, or Attribution Share Alike means that cannot sell anything but have to give it away at no charge. No derivatives means arrangements, transcriptions and other adaptations of the work cannot be done without your written permission, and the Performance-restricted license we offer means that performances must be reported to a performing rights society (like ASCAP or BMI in the USA, GEMA in Germany, PRS in the UK, etc.). I usually recommend that composer use at least the Non-commercial or Share Alike versions of the Creative Commons license, since everything on this site is typically copied by the E-bay sellers and offered for sale otherwise. See this page for details. Carolus 03:30, 1 May 2010 (UTC) (IMSLP Copyright Admin)
ok thank you Aurora.borealis 03:33, 1 May 2010 (UTC)


Dear Carolus! There are some folk songs from austria in this book. I don´t know what kind of category I should select. The lyrics are in german but not from germany. Best wishes Bassani

It would be OK to create a category of Austrian Folk Songs, which should serve for posting the works - even though both countries speak mainly German. Carolus 22:56, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

User:Bernaun (Talk · contribs)

Hi Carolus,

I'm sorry but I don't understand why you sent me the message regarding the Casadesus: Viola COncert in the Style of J.C. Bach.

Here was the message you sent me:

"Dear Adrian, The Casadesus: Viola Concerto in the Style of J.C. Bach is protected in both the USA and in the EU. It is free in Canada (since Casadesus died in 1947) but would be subject to a block here due to our headquarters being in the USA (though our server is in Canada). The work is not by J.C. Bach at all but was actually composed by Casadesus. Since we already have the file for the viola and piano arrangement, I deleted the copies you uploaded as they were duplicates. Also, I changed the Creative Commons license to the non-commercial version for your own piece, as people are free to copy your work and sell it on E-Bay if you use the attribution (only) version. Carolus 05:29, 3 May 2010 (UTC) (IMSLP Copyright Admin"

let me know if I can help.


Adrian (user: buenobus)

Hi Adrian,
simple case of mistaken identity. Carolus should have addressed his complaint to User:Bernaun (Talk · contribs).
Regards, Philip Legge @ © talk 06:33, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Beethoven Variationen 2 Oboen und Englischhorn

Hi Carolus,

Fritz Stein mentioned in his preface only some indications for dynamics, expression, rendering and phrasing. Is this enough to establish a copyright ? (via "threshold of originality"?). If you think, it is, I would prepare a new typesetted version with partly other indications. There is no reason to block this new version, I think.

Notenschreiber 07:51, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

I would second this opinion - I have the very recent critical edition by Henle (2008) as pdf and could upload this for you to compare. --Kalliwoda 14:15, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

That would be helpful. The German word "eingerichtet" is usually translated as "arranged" - so I was assuming that this meant that Stein added some material of his own to the 1914 score. Carolus 17:49, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
I uploaded it, just hope you can have a look before one of your fellow copyright reviewers deletes it --Kalliwoda 22:21, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Tournemire: L'Orgue Mystique

Hi Carolus,

I was wondering whether it would be possible to review whether the works of Charles Tournemire are in Public Domain now or not, particularly "L'Orgue Mystique" (my main concern being an organist!). He is on the list of composers to come into public domain this year (2010) since he died in 1939 but I don't know whether this is world-wide or only in EU or what... I am sure that, if allowed by copyright laws, the unblocking of this would be very useful to and appreciated by many organists who wish to play and research this wonderful music.



The problem has to do with the status in the USA. They are free in much of the EU now, but the fact that they were published after 1922 with a valid copyright notice (and a high chance of renewal after 28 years) means they are locked up for 95 years after publication in the USA. Even though our server is located in Canada, our office is in the USA which means we have to impose a block on titles which are protected there. Carolus 17:53, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Duvernoy, Nocturnes

Hi Carolus,

I uploaded a "Nocturne No.2" for Horn and Harp by Frédéric Duvernoy. There is already a page for "3 Nocturnes for Horn and Harp" by the same composer. Someone has put the two of them altogether, but I suspect that this No. 2 is part of an other "livraison" of Nocturnes for the same combination. Any inputs on the topic? Thanks, PA Patremblay22 22:29, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

You appear to be correct. There were evidently at least two livres of Nocturnes - though the first (Op.32) was co-composed by Naderman. Your upload is once again on its own page. Thanks, Carolus 05:10, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Dear Carolus, thanks for retagging this. KGill was the original tagger, but thanks for catching the mistake. What I can't work out now is that on the page I can see, the bottom now shows:

"Nocturnes | Scores featuring the horn | Scores featuring the harp | For 3 players | For horn, harp | Scores featuring the violin | Scores featuring the harpsichord | For 2 players | For violin, harpsichord | Duvernoy, Frédéric"

That was a direct cut and paste. I can't see any version where it was tagged for harpsichord and violin. The 3 players part might be explained by caching, but Kenneth's original tagging didn't include "hpd". I will wait a couple days and check again, just in case the cache is funny, and hopefully it will just go away. (Steltz)

It's Harp not harpsichord. The tagging looked strange and I saw that you were busy tagging away at things so I thought you ought to take a look at it. Thanks, Carolus 16:46, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
As I recall, I tagged it with the alternate instrumentation 'hn hp vn' because in looking at the file, I apparently decided that the violin part bore little enough resemblance to the horn part to be considered an optional extra rather than just a transposition. I guess I was wrong... KGill talk email 00:53, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Schmutzig: Complete Method für der Waldhorn oder der Ventilhorn

I found out that the Professor Eric von Schmutzig books were actually written by one Arthur E. Goldstein, who died in 2009. Guess I'll have to delete Patremblay's upload... KGill talk email 01:09, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Apparently free in the USA only. Oh well.... Carolus 03:44, 7 May 2010 (UTC)


Could you explain the CVC tag? I tagged it VCV because it might not be 120 post-creation, etc. But I thought the EU and CA status was fine.-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 19:23, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

V in USA because author has been dead more than 70 years - even if never published. C in Canada and EU because of possible Editio Princeps issues if the work was never previously published or if certain conditions are in play. The 120 year rule in USA applies only to works where the author is unknown or anonymous. Carolus 19:26, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

OK, thanks-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 19:28, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the publishers work too; remember to cite your sources! ;)-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 22:25, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Rubinstein: Hungarian Fantasia

Thanks for the pub. info. I'm not familiar with this publisher or the imprint, and WorldCat didn't specify anything. Daphnis 02:58, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

I found an entry on WorldCat, oddly enough. I didn't know they pre-dated the merger or Buda and Pest, which was in the 1870s I think. BTW, I'll be sending a list of bad pages in Sapho shortly - about 20 or so. I'm really somewhat amazed at the bad quality of Google's scanning. There are some real howlers (like a picture of someone's hand) in some of the scores I've been through. Carolus 03:02, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
Ha! That's outrageous how little care they put into some of this digitization work. Regarding the date for this edition, it is most likely the first edition of the piece, but the Grove entry for Rubinstein doesn't even list a date. Is it possible we can place it somewhat close to the correct date? Daphnis 03:04, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
I'll look over at the Hofmeister Monatsbericht and see if I can find any clues. They're usually pretty good about covering Central European issues. Carolus 03:06, 9 May 2010 (UTC) UPDATE: Found it! - 1858. Carolus 03:30, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Cool, thanks! Daphnis 03:31, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Cello Sonata No.1 by R. Fuchs

Hello Carolus, would you please have a look at the piece? It was reprinted by Wollenweber. Since Fuchs was not yet in the public domain that time, they had to put a copyright notice on the 1st page. The score itself looks like an old edition with added bar numbers. I think it should be ok. Thanks. Hobbypianist 17:35, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

You were absolutely correct. It was issued in 1881. Pretty amazing they'd have the nerve to put a 1986 copyright claim on something that is so obviously a 19th century engraving. Carolus 03:16, 10 May 2010 (UTC)


Check the FTP...we have some work to do before uploading.-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 15:34, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Should we contact Kcleung or Horndude for the logo removal?-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 16:45, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

I've now unlocked all the files and removed the metatags, etc. All that needs to be done (once I've uploaded all of these to the FTP which takes a bit of time) is to have the logos and headers/footers removed. Horndude is the one who created the ruby script to remove these as a I recall, so yes, please notify both about the continuation of the OMP. All of the unlocked, metatag-stripped files should be uploaded by tomorrow afternoon at latest. While he's at it, if he could create a version of his script to remove all CDSM logos from their previous series, we have a fair number of files for things like vocal scores and instrumental works of various types that could be added once cleaned of logos. Carolus 20:02, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

OK, I saw your message. The files look good! Is it worth uploading scores for the operas anymore?- we have high-quality versions of the same. Thanks-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 22:49, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

For a couple of the scores, it appears OMCDRL has scanned a different (usually earlier) edition than the one we have at present. The resolution is 400dpi, so I see no need to duplicate one we already have. Carolus 22:51, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

That's what I thought. Also: IMSLP:Community Projects/Merton Project - ready to go when you are :) (it's commented out in all the right places)-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 23:00, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. I'm waiting for a couple of paragraphs from Theo Wyatt describing Merton, it's history and goals, etc. The official name is "The Theo and Kitty Wyatt Project" BTW. I'll probably be uploading the collection to the FTP server next week. You are naturally nominated to join in the project! Carolus 23:03, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Edited. Can you give a rough timeline? Also, 2 members is obviously small, so a forum topic would normally be in order. Should we wait until the forums are back under their new IMSLP.EU guise? (See Feld's talk).-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 23:12, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I was planning to wait until then to bring up the topic. It's not that huge - about 1300 titles altogether. Carolus 23:14, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Also, nice work with the American composers (MacDowell, Joplin)! Looking much better now, esp. Joplin-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 17:31, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

I've been meaning to clean up the Joplin section for some time. I have the original (now OP) Dover volume that reproduces all the scores. Also, Piano Society has recordings for almost all of the rags. All 16 Wagner works are now uploaded to the FTP. I'll have to ask Daphnis if they only included 10 scores, or scores for all 16. As I said previously, we should check to make sure the scores are something different form what we already have before bothering to do the logo-removal, etc. On the Merton titles, I am hoping to get everything done this summer. Theo Wyatt has some loyal customers who are willing to join the project, so we'll need detailed instructions on how to upload items on the project page. Carolus 17:36, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

I saw that Wagner yesterday. When you get the files on the FTP, I guess I'll whip up some documentation.
It's a shame they let that go out of print. However, an interesting question is raised by the fact that they got permission to publish the Silver Swan Rag in that collection. Do you think it would be worthwhile to ask the copyright holders for permission to post that here?-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 17:39, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

The info in the preface about Silver Swan Rag is interesting: The piano roll was discovered in 1970 by Albert Huerta, a collector in Los Angeles. The roll itself was sold by the National Music Roll Co. of St. Johnsville, NY ca.1914=1915. The roll was transcribed by Donna McCluer and Richard Zimmerman, revised and edited by William Bolcom and Vera Brodsky Lawrence. The copyright claimant is "Trust of Lottie Joplin Thomas", dated 1971. Silver Swan Rag is also included in the Dover volume presently for sale. If you want to ask, please feel free - the worst they can do is say "no." Carolus 17:54, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

They did include all the scores, I just didn't upload the duplicate editions of those already present. Daphnis 18:00, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

So you already did the job of sorting out what we already had vs. items that we did not. Thanks! Carolus 18:02, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

OK, Horndude and kcleung both appear to be on some sort of hiatus.
In the meantime, you could archive your talk...or upload some Merton files. :)-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 01:13, 20 May 2010 (UTC)


Could you check the publisher information on Valkyries and Siegfried? Thanks
P.S. not many more sets to go... :)-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 16:53, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Also, I think Goetterdaemerrung is the same as Siegfried publsiher-wise.-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 16:57, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I'm fairly certain that Kalmus (whose reprints were actually scanned for 99% of the OMCD series - I have now confirmed) reprinted the Schott parts for the entire Ring cycle. I have the plate and date info from Fuld. Great job with these - you've obviously learned to use Horndude's black box to clean files. Carolus 17:00, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Actually he cleaned and uploaded to the FTP about a week ago...I've just been uploading. It's funny actually, because the only Wagner I really like are Tristan and Meistersinger...thanks-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 17:01, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

I'll have to leave a thank you note over at his page. It's pretty impressive to have parts for these in any case. The Merton collection is growing nicely too. I expect we'll easily reach 100,000 files by the end of the year. Carolus 17:05, 1 June 2010 (UTC) Hmm...sounds just a little optimistic. I think 75,000 will easily happen within the summer, but at our current rate of 1000 files=2 weeks, with 7 months left, that gives us 14,000 files=75,000 files...something might have to change...verdi opera parts anyone? :)-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 01:27, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Parts are done! I might do some scores later but feel free (you or KGill) to do that :)-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 16:56, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

If you could oblige some of these FS publisher infos (I have absolutely no clue)...-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 15:11, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

No problem. I have access to almost complete info on these. Carolus 16:23, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Stone Guest

The last of your photocopied vocal scores is posted. Have a look to ensure the pub. info. is to your liking. Daphnis 22:34, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! Scans look great (as always). Carolus 23:27, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Gesänge, Op.22 (Dürrner, Johann Ruprecht)

Hello Carolus, #64062 is still waiting for deliverance from the [B] ;-) --Ralph Theo Misch 19:29, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks - I'll go there in a minute. Carolus 19:30, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
Thanks! --Ralph Theo Misch 19:31, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Personal Scores

Carolus, I'm going to post more of your pocket scores soon. Is there any particular or compelling reason to scan so many of these pieces that exist in full score already? I'm specifically speaking of these Heugel re-engravings. Daphnis 00:59, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

No particular reason except they are different editions/engravings. If there are other pieces that are more urgent to have (like scores we lack for sets of parts we have), you can wait until later. I'm not in any big rush for their return. Carolus 02:38, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
Ok. I'll save those duplicates for last. Daphnis 03:17, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Love arms himselfe in Celia´s eyes

Dear Carolus! I made a mistake in the titel of "Love arms himself in Celia´s eyes". Could you correct this? Sorry. Best wishes Bassani

No problem. I will fix shortly. Carolus 21:37, 17 May 2010 (UTC)


Dear Carolus! I´ve forgotten the Op.2 in the titel of "A Busserl von Diandlan". Sorry:( Bassani


There is a message sitting in your Yahoo inbox from short{at} about a possible project...please do read!-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 01:11, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. I have several fires to put out at my "day job" this week - I might not get to Merton uploads until the weekend. I sometimes hate it when work gets in the way of IMSLP! Carolus 03:10, 20 May 2010 (UTC). UPDATE: I just checked both yahoo mailboxes and saw nothing from Brad Short. I know him somewhat so will give him a call tomorrow. Thanks, Carolus 03:33, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

OK, thanks!-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 15:34, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

The Gaylord Project is on! You can make up some templates if you like. Also, since the Gaylord items have a specific URL, it might be noice if we can set up something in the Scanner field as we have with Sibley. In addition to the ca.800 titles in the link to the special collection catalog sent with your e-mail, Brad would like to see the Krick Guitar Music Collection (about 250 titles, after omitting those not free in Canada) added. Carolus 19:14, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Mahler Piano Quartet

Hi Carolus,
there are contradictory remarks about the status of the work in the forums. I think Mr. Gedan is wrong if he says "...because nobody is allowed to scan Sikorski's edition and upload it at ISMLP...". The work has been published as first edition / ed. princeps more than 25 years ago. According the preface the aim was 'to reproduce the autograph as unchanged as possible', some slips of the pen have been corrected, additions by the publisher are in brackets. If you have a look at the score / parts you won't see any fingering. I know it'll fall immeditately under the cursed [TB] but I'd like to see it here anyway. You said it would be free in Canada, so if I get your ok, I can post it. Hobbypianist 19:21, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

I am fairly sure it would be free in Canada - even though it was issued less than 50 years ago. For composers dead over 50 years, publication is defined to include performance or recording. I seem to remember reading that the Quartet was actually performed. It was simply a case of it never actually being printed and sold until the 1970s. You can go ahead and post it here, though it will of course be subject to the accursed [TB] block. Carolus 19:27, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
Ok, I was unaware that this first publication was more-or-less a diplomatic transcription of the manuscript or autographs. That said, from what I've read, a performance was only "suspected" of having taken place, and from what I've been able to dig up, no date can be firmly identified as the first performance. I think we'd probably need that critical piece of information even if we're to let this piece "chill out" for decades. Daphnis 21:39, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
In addition, there's this oddball item in Canada's law that appears to be something similar to a "rule of the shorter term" - though it naturally does not explicitly state that they're applying "rule of the shorter term" for non-Canadian works. It's the one area of Canada's otherwise fairly straightforward law that is murky. Since it's under the infernal [TB] anyway, I'm inclined to let it stand unless someone barks at us. Besides, I'll put in link for Sheet Music Plus, which tends to keep them from barking in the first place. Carolus 21:44, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Then if this is going to be the case and since it is no doubt a hot-ticket item, I would go ahead and put a small note to these effects in the discussion page explaining the decision to host and tag it. Daphnis 21:46, 21 May 2010 (UTC)


  1. Have you gotten that paragraph?
  2. You should make a forum post at the new location asking for volunteers.
  3. I'll put the page "online"
  4. How about some files?

Thanks-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 22:01, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

He sent the paragraph last night. I'm going to review shortly. Now he wants the project name to be "The Merton Music Project." (!) The scanner credit should go to "Theo Wyatt" (since Kitty didn't do any scanning). I'll be able to upload a folder or two of files this evening. Carolus 22:05, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

OK, great. Topic?

IMSLP:Community Projects/Gaylord Project. I emailed asking if he wanted details of any sort. Thanks-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 22:16, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

First file up. Also, have you seen the Strauss 4 Last Songs topic on the new forums?-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 22:44, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

OK, the paragraph...can we "quote" it in any way? We have to, as a website, sound neutral...-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 03:30, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

I was posting it there so I can hopefully do that - it's quite a saga as it stands! Carolus 03:32, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

True. Maybe just blockquotes then? I'm personally fine with it...but I can see people having problems with the "capitalistic greed" part...-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 03:34, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
Who are these "people"? What part of "capitalistic greed" is hard to understand? Philip Legge @ © talk 13:21, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
 ;-) PML

I've edited it down to three paragraphs now. I tried to make it more neutral with respect to ideological remarks like the one referenced by PML above. Carolus 16:10, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

How are they looking?-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 19:27, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

They look fine. I'll be uploading a lot more files to the FTP. There are a few odd cases where I will have to ask Theo about who he engaged to typeset some scores and parts, but that's it. All 1300 titles should be available for upload in a week or so. Carolus 19:30, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Recording System

Hi Carolus. I've finished implementing the basic stuff necessary for uploading recordings onto IMSLP. I've also uploaded an example here: Fantasias and Fugues or Fughettas for Clavichord, BWV 903-908 (Bach, Johann Sebastian). However, I would be grateful if you can try and upload an audio file yourself (you can use a music file either from Wikimedia Commons or the site I used in my upload). In particular, I would like to get your approval on the submission process and licensing text, just to cover our legal bases. --Feldmahler 15:17, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Just uploaded a Holst file from the chorus where I've serve on the board. I like the boilerplate that comes up after the initial upload page - it should both scare off the careless "drive-by" type of uploader who has no copyright scruples and help to protect IMSLP/PLP from infringement issues (a real minefield in the area of sound recordings). I cannot see any changes I would make to the upload page, other than to make the default setting something other than "public domain" since there are so few public domain recordings - especially in the USA. Carolus 16:58, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Looks great! (More file types...). Feld, are you planning on a news entry, open letter, etc.? Perhaps you should? A lot of changes have been made around here recently, and it might be good to summarize in a nice announcement. Thanks-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 18:43, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

@Carolus: Nice catch. Actually, "public domain" is not allowed for recordings at the moment anyway. I might, however, enable it but make the default blank so that people have to actually select the license.
@Perlnerd: Done.  :) (P.S. Should I call you Snailey?) --Feldmahler 21:30, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, and I don't really care :)-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 02:49, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Oh, and do these get counted as scores? I'm worried about them messing up the count. If not, then a separate count...-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 02:52, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Bach Suites

Hello Carolus, thanks so much for verifying the many score i have uploaded... There seems to be a problem on the Cello Bach Suites page. It will not let me click on 'Add multiple files to this page'... Is it a bug? Thanks for your help. Generoso 22:43, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

I'll take a look - thanks. Carolus 22:44, 22 May 2010 (UTC) UPDATE: It seems to be because the page hadn't yet been parsed to reflect the programming changes Feldmahler has been making for the addition of audio files. It seems to be fine now. If you run into another page like it, make a very minor change like capitalizing the S in "Complete Score" or somthing similar, clicking the "save page" button. This should automatically update the page to reflect the new link for multiple score files. Carolus 22:50, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
Thanks, That did it!Generoso 22:54, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Regarding the HTTP:// pURL wrapper

Just a note that if, when using a URL and you want to use a different file name on IMSLP, simply add "!!NAMEAS!!" (without quotes) followed by the name you want at the end of the URL. --Feldmahler 00:35, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Poem translations using CC-BY-SA

Dear Carolus!

I am proud to inform you, that I have a written permission from Istvan Babits (legal successor) to use the Hungarian translations of Latin hymns by Mihaly Babits along the CC-BY-SA license. This makes it possible to publish the translations on the scores of 12_vers_az_'Amor_Sanctus'_kötetből_(Rieth,_József).

What should be the next step? BR. --Hoze 16:00, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

That's wonderful news. Next step is for you to upload them. We will tag them accordingly - after which they will be freely available. Carolus 16:02, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
Thanks, I did it. Hoze 08:00, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Verdi, Quattro Pezzi Sacri

Hello C - Can you find a good place on the work's page Quattro Pezzi Sacri (Verdi, Giuseppe) for something like this?:


  • Ave Maria (harmonized on an enigmatic scale [scala enigmatica], for unaccompanied mixed chorus)
  • Stabat Mater (for mixed chorus with orchestral accompaniment)
  • Laudi alla Vergine Maria (from the final canto of Dante's Paradise, for unaccompanied four part women's chorus)
  • Te Deum (for double chorus of mixed voices with orchestral accompaniment).

This also reminds me that I was a little uneasy about the "Genre" choices that the upload page offered me. There are probably at least tre genres in the quattro pezzi:

  • Choruses, Sacred (Mixed voices) with orchestra -- Vocal scores with piano
  • Choruses, Sacred (Mixed voices, 4 parts), Unaccompanied
  • Choruses, Sacred (Women's voices, 4 parts), Unaccompanied

If someone is browsing for _unaccompanied_ choral works, will he find this Ave Maria? Thanks.

Olmsted 04:07, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

You don't need to worry about this – the limited range of genres available on the submission form is a blunt instrument compared to the tagging system, which can cope with miscellanies like Verdi's. Probably the astute choice would have been "Hymn", which at a stretch can accomodate canticles (Te Deum) or sequences (Stabat Mater). Regards, Philip Legge @ © talk 04:32, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Czardas Macabre

I can't identify this edition - and neither can Dover, apparently! Help?-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 16:39, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

From the engraving style, I would guess that this is one of the Liszt items issued by Schirmer edited by Rafael Joseffy. I'll do a search on OCLC to see if the page count matches. Nice work on the Meistersinger parts, BTW. Carolus 16:45, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

And Parsifal...long parts, but it's not too many files (Gurrelieder was both! And Sleeping Beauty). Thanks-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 17:04, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Score must be in the public domain in both the US and in Canada?

Hi Carolus, I'm a little confused. Is it the case that a score must nowadays be in the public domain in both Canada and in the US in order to be permissable on IMSLP? [Issue cleared up, in order to be accessable, it needs to be PD in both countries. In order to be permissable, however, it must be PD in Canada]

Also, I have done the copyright test. Since it is, nowadays also, no longer possible to send emails through IMSLP, [I needed to comfirm my email address first, which is peculiar since I remember having comfirmed it long ago] I have sent it to your forum inbox [and your mail inbox]. Check it when you have the time. --Funper 00:57, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

I'll try and get to it this weekend - now that I am done performing in Mendelssohn's Elijah! Carolus 17:49, 30 May 2010 (UTC)