User talk:Carolus/archive30


John Milton

Dear Carolus! Today I´ve created the category for John Milton. This Milton is not the famous poet. He is the father,but in the new category appears automatically works with the lyrics by John Milton the poet.How can I delete these works from the list? Best wishes Bassani

That's not going to be easy. Carolus 23:47, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
I suggested adding a category for Milton Sr (or Milton (composer) ) and moving the musical works there- would that work? Eric 15:48, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Stille Betrachtung

Is Stille Betrachtung "!C/48/14" just because I added "Etwas schneller" and two metronome markings? Alonso del Arte 16:21, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

No, it is due to the date of first publication, which you listed as 1988. Works first published in 1988 are protected in the EU until 2014 and in the USA until 2048. They are free in Canada, assuming they were actually performed in the composer's lifetime. Carolus 23:46, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
I see. I might be wrong about that date but I'm not sure. I looked at a handwritten facsimile (20th century) on yellow paper that looks like a WPA job, but that could be because it's cheaper paper, not necessarily older paper. And I looked at the Gesamtausgabe, the relevant volume having been published in 1988. The Gesamtausgabe, by the way, has a misplaced sharp in m. 36, but since the natural on the next beat is correctly placed, it's clear where the misplaced sharp should have been.
The piece was certainly performed in Bruckner's lifetime, at the Thanner household, for one.
Bottomline, I will not argue with your determination. I only hope that whoever put the piece on the Wishlist lives in Canada. Alonso del Arte 14:39, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Interesting re Hofmeister project at Royal Holloway University

Not only down right now but no longer mentioned at their host's research page (though on the google cache of it, still.) Eric 15:47, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Erm- false alarm, apparently ,fortunately. Eric 08:06, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Barbara Schubert

it wouldn't be PD-US, though I think it would still be PD-CA enough to host here - not sure if you noticed the March 2011 performance by Barbara Schubert and the U Chicago Symphony of Myaskovsky's symphony 22 in B minor (1941) (which has, I think, been commercially recorded twice- I have one of those recordings, led by Evgeni Svetlanov, first released on LP; there's also a much more recent one.) Really good piece in my opinion, anyway. Link here. Cheers- Eric 04:35, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Carolus is on holiday, Eric. Philip @ © talk 04:39, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Marcello Oboe Concerto ed. Ruf

Not sure what to do about this one. Ruf's (d. 1999) of Marcello's Oboe Concerto is from 1985 (Schott) and contains the following prose in the preface:

"This piano reduction of Alessandro Marcello's Concerto for Oboe, Strings and Continuo supplements our edition from the ANTIQUA series, published in 1963 (ANT74, full score and parts). The piano reduction differs from the full score in that my additional bowing marks are rendered as broken lines and the original dynamic marks are written out in full (forte instead of f). Those notes which belong to the continuo part are indicated by the use of slightly smaller print." [etc.]

This sounds (and looks) like not much original editorial content. Should we dare? Hope you're enjoying Michigan! Daphnis 01:27, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

If the reduction consists of a mere transcription of the violin 1 and bass parts with a few things filled in (something which even notation programs like Finale can do - albeit poorly), then I'd say go ahead and post it. If he did things to make it more pianistic, the arrangement issue surfaces. In works of the Marcello era, the simple practice described above is often encountered - and certainly not original in nature. Northern Michigan (near Sleeping Bear Dunes) was absolutely beautiful - Thanks, Carolus 00:23, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
It appears to be such a reduction, however, would you like to take a gander? Daphnis 04:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Yes. I would like to look it over. This is one of those areas where we're on the edge - so we need to know for sure what the situation is. Carolus 04:36, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Agreed. Email sent. Daphnis 04:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

I think you can post as long as you get rid of the little preface by Ruf. The credit states "herausgegeben" which is usually translated as "edited." It would appear that even Schott is only claiming an edition here - not an arrangement. It should therefore be OK for the EU server. Carolus 05:01, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

Ludwig Kern

Do you have ANY idea whatsoever as to the successor of Ludwig Kern (publisher)? Daphnis 01:19, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Bump on this. Daphnis 04:17, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Any ideas? I'm seeking permission to reprint something they published and have no idea to whom I should appeal. Daphnis 13:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Can you help, or can I verify that this copyright (from 1924) is actually valid and renewed properly? Daphnis 18:30, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
Pardon my intrusion but if the work you are referring to is 24 Etüden in allen Tonarten (Wunderer, Alexander) (apparently the only work published by Kern on IMSLP) then it is most likely PD-US as I cannot find an initial registration for it in the Catalog of Copyright Entries from the mid-1920s nor a renewal in the volumes from the early 1950s. Hope that helps. --Cypressdome 00:09, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi Cypressdome, thanks for that information! I was hoping this was the case, however, can you tell me (or link) where you were able to verify this? I require proof that this is the case before proceeding with my plans. Many thanks, Daphnis 02:29, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
You're welcome! You can find the volumes for new registrations from the 1920s (and more) on Hathi Trust and the renewal registrations are on linked from Catalog of Copyright Entries for the USA. I included some information on using those sources in this thread. --Cypressdome 02:48, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Fantastic, thanks very much for chiming in! I have enough information to say this work is almost certainly public domain in the US. I have re-tagged the file accordingly. Daphnis 03:01, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks, Cypressdome! I did not think to search IMSLP!!! I found no references to Kern in any of the things I was looking through (MGG, the Rehrig band reference, Macmillan Encyclopedia, etc. Carolus 03:25, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks to you both, and for you (Carolus) for finally responding :) Ludwig Kern apparently only published a handful of works, all of which are quite rare today. I was also unsuccessful in locating this publisher in any literature or after personal inquiries to notable publishers. They must have been a publishing "flash in the pan". Daphnis 03:28, 29 September 2011 (UTC)


I currently have a couple questions about several things; not all of which are probably your purview. I was wondering how to change to Style tags for most of my pieces since they're mix labeled as Modern and Romantic, personally I prefer the Romantic tag but I heard from someone that new composers need to be labeled as Modern. Also is there anyway to alter a users username? Avianne 18:44, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Hi Avianne. I'm not Carolus, but I think I can answer your questions. I think it's best if modern composers use the "modern" tag because it will actually sort the pieces by time period. It does not actually refer to the style of the piece, but the stylistic time period in which the piece was written. In the future there could be a case for expanding the genres or sub-genres, such as including prehistoric music. The only way to alter a user name would be to create a new account since we don't currently have the special extension required for changing usernames. It is possible to create a new account so long as you identify yourself as the same user, otherwise it is sock-puppetry For example, PML has an alternate account. Generally speaking, however, it is not a well accepted practice. Respectfully yours, Emery 22:13, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
Ah ok, yeah I just wanted to change my user to my actual name, which I've already done with my Sig. Yeah I tend to write in a pseudo-classical/baroque combination. Thanks David Hamlin 03:38, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

Localization using

Hi Carolus, I'd like to translate some interface texts into Catalan, but I cannot figure out how to do it. I have been researching a bit the subject and I stubled upon this tool which could come handy for me and many other translators: TranslateWiki. Do you think it would be possible to use it here at IMSLP? --Micru 21:29, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Hello Mircu, I think you should probably post your question on the forums, and at Feldmahler's talk page. Thanks, Carolus 00:24, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Sonata for 2 Bassoons (Weyse, Christoph Ernst Friedrich)

Hi Carolus,

is it necessary to eliminate the entry of musica storica from this page? Notenschreiber 19:06, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

Hi, Notenschreiber. I'm just back, so pardon my mental fog if it shows up! At any rate, I recall that the owners of Musica Storica objected to their items being placed on IMSLP, which is why we discourage people from posting their editions here. They are not CC, but a traditional copyright, so we have to respect their wishes. Carolus 00:17, 20 September 2011 (UTC)


Well I'm proud to report that after 5 vocal scores and 1 full score, we have, by my research, all extant scores to this opera as edited/completed by Rimsky-Korsakov. Fairly safe to say that I'm Mussorgskyd out. Daphnis 04:18, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

I saw - Outstanding work. Your next mission, should you decide to accept it, is to find a copy of the Lamm full score for Boris (original version, not RK's arrangement). It was reprinted by Kalmus in the 1960s (2 or 3 volumes as I recall). The original issue from the 1930s was only about 200 copies, so those are extremely rare. It's not engraved, but produced from a copyist's manuscript. We will naturally disavow all knowledge of your activities. :)) Carolus 04:57, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
It actually weighs in at 4 volumes and contains both 1869 and 1872 versions. I can't find a page count, but I'm sure it's massive. I'll have to see how much I can get done on these other opera scores before I accept your mission. :) Daphnis 13:51, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

Scheidt: Cantiones sacrae

Hi Carolus, I underestimated that project. Meanwhile, it has become late and I will continue tomorrow. Regards, --Ralph Theo Misch 23:10, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

Question about recording's copyright of "Le Carnaval des Animaux" by C. Saint Saëns

Hello, i've just one question : is it legally authorized to build upon the Pandora Records recording of "Le Carnaval des Animaux" by C. Saint Saëns and put it on YouTube with proper attribution ? Thank you very much.

Yes, since the recording has been released by Pandora under the equivalent of a creative commons license, you are free to put it on YouTube with proper attribution. Carolus 21:02, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

BWV 102; Parts

Dear Carolus, it's a little complicated. I'll send you an email tomorrow. --Ralph Theo Misch 23:02, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Bizet Te Deum

Hi Carolus -- I am in possession of a score published in 1971 of Bizet's Te Deum (composed 1858). I am trying to determine if it is suitable to be uploaded. The score is the first printed publication of the work and would be PD in the EU following the urtext rules, but I cannot determine if the piece can be said to have been performed or "delivered" during Bizet's lifetime, thereby making the work PD in Canada as well. It is certainly non-PD in the US. Bizet entered the work in a competition for Prix de Rome winners, and it seems possible that as such it was "delivered" in 1858, but not sure if it was ever performed. Perhaps this has already been questioned, but I couldn't find anything in the forums. Thoughts? Massenetique talk email 00:39, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

That's a tough one. I am inclined to take the position that the work was most likely performed back in Bizet's lifetime and therefore tag it "C" for Canada, which would make this score an EU-only item. Carolus 00:48, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Sounds good to me. I'll work on scanning it tonight. Thanks! Massenetique talk email 00:53, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

Hi Massenetique and Carolus. Bizet's Te Deum was entered for the Rodrigues prize in 1958, which he didn't win. The work was considered a great failure when the audience first heard the piece, partly due to his inexperience in writing sacred music. In Canada, a work is copyrighted for 50 years after the first public "delivery", so I am also inclined to agree with Carolus - the work is almost certainly public domain in Canada. Respectfully yours, Emery 22:09, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

12 Violin Sonatas, Op.1 (Veracini, Francesco Maria)

Hi, I was just wondering about the reasoning that went into the C*/C*/V* tags for the Kolneder edition - they include a continuo realization that appears to have some originality to it (not a huge amount, but some), and it seems that some fingerings and bowings were added to the violin part as well. I guess this item wasn't eligible for US copyright due to the country of publication, but what about the other two jurisdictions? It seems to me at least that it more than meets the threshold of originality in at least Canada. (BTW, Ctesibius uploaded the same edition back in June, which I deleted for the reasons I just cited; perhaps I should have left it around longer for evaluation?) Thanks, KGill talk email 04:24, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I am a bit torn on this one myself but decided to tag it thus so I could get some input on it when we had some time to take breath. Since its free in the USA, we can re-tag as N/C/N - even N/V/N if Masters or someone has reprinted it and move to the US server (which I just did - since we can still consider the files in detail while they'll be blocked from casual visitors). Carolus 04:40, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

This is a complicated case and I think the edition should be moved to the US server. The threshold of originality in Canada is very low, so I think that this almost certainly meets the requirements. Another criterion for copyright in Canada is the authors nationality and place of publication - Canadian citizens, British subjects, citizens of a foreign country that has adhered to the Berne Convention, residence within the Commonwealth (including Canada), and citizens of a country to which the Act may extend from time to time (for example, UCC country citizens) are all protected by Canadian copyright. I think that the edition is under copyright in Canada, but I really don't know enough about Canadian copyright law to be sure. Respectfully yours, Emery 21:39, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

I am inclined to agree that it would indeed meet the minimum threshold or originality the more I look at it. That's why I retagged it and marked it with the template to be moved to the US server. The EU is sort of a difficult case also. Many EU libraries - notably the BSB in Germany - appear to take the view that section 70 (the section governing urtext editions) applies to everything in the edition - including prefaces, critical notes and continuo realizations. I think there was a court case in the UK about an edition which included quite a bit of reconstruction or realization on the editor's part. Don't know how that turned out, but I wonder if it pertains to the behavior of the libraries. Carolus 21:50, 24 September 2011 (UTC)


Hi Carolus. I've replied on Afolop's talk pageP.davydov 08:49, 25 September 2011 (UTC)