User talk:Daphnis


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I notice that when you upload works, under the 'instrumentation field' you often put 'Violin, Viola, Cello', or something along these lines. 'Piano', in the newest. While it is no longer preferable to have include numbers since it gets cluttered (e.g. "1 violin, 1 viola, 1 cello"), except in cases where needed for clarity, according to our manual of style for general information (a work in progress) there is no need to capitalize the first letter, for purpose of standardization. If you have objections, feel free to dispute. Refer to the general information guide for specific details concerning the general information. In case you have suggestions, feel free to write them via forums or discussion page. On a completely different note, you'll never guess what I use now....... Adobe! You're right, sorry for the arguments a while back on the forums ;) BKhon 02:59, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Oops, you're right. I'll go back and fix these in a second. Daphnis 03:01, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the Dohnanyi, btw-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 03:04, 15 September 2010 (UTC)


Just a suggestion: this talk page is getting fairly long, and it might be a good idea to consider archiving it at this point (33 topics!) BKhon 03:01, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Probably a good idea. Perlnerd, can you show/tell me the correct way to do this? Daphnis 03:20, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Done. You might do well to remember next time ;)-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 01:59, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I know. Thanks all the same. Daphnis 02:01, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

G. Hartmann publisher page

Wanted to let you know I created a publisher page for G. Hartmann -- thought the amount of works here published by him warranted a unique page. I've started a plate number list with Massenet and will go about adding other composers and linking from the corresponding work pages, if you have some Saint-Saëns works or others you can add that would be great. Thanks!Massenetique 01:55, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Cool. Be sure to trawl the site for all the Hartmann publications. I know I'm guilty of adding tons of pieces. Daphnis 01:59, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
Will do.Massenetique 05:52, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

@Massenetique: Thanks, but make sure to cite your source in Chicago format. Thanks again-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 16:33, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Sibley, Durand

Ah, will try to do that. Thanks! Eric 15:10, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

By the way, you can respond on your talk page to messages we leave as we'll be watching them for changes. Thanks again. Daphnis 15:12, 20 September 2010 (UTC)


I noticed you recently uploaded Polyphème, by Jean Cras. I also notice that in this file order, the cover comes first. Did you manually do that, or was it Sibley? It's usually customary (refer to my talk page discussion) to have the cover last, but the there really aren't any established rules on that. It should probably be done at some point. Personally, I would like covers to come first, but seeing as IMSLP needs to be standardized, most of the files have the covers last. For sake of consistency, I would suggest we leave it like that. Thanks, BKhon 01:15, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

I put the cover first. I am not aware of a convention for Sibley file order uploads. Personally, I think the covers are pretty much useless as they mostly add nothing of significance, but if they must be uploaded, it would make most sense to put them first. After all, they are the FRONT covers and nothing else. I don't do a lot of Sibley upload, so if you'd like to change this one, feel free. Daphnis 01:20, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
The reason the usual method makes sense to me, speaking for myself, is rather like this- primary secondary tertiary (uploading a violin sonata, putting the full score on top, the violin part second, the color cover not at all or third because it's nice to look at and interesting- third.) Eric 01:32, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
I completely agree with you that it makes the most sense. However all the files on Sibley put the cover last. On IMSLP we tend to like consistency, and a uniform look. At this point, it makes sense just to leave the files as Sibley put them, since it would save a lot of time, while still being standard. With kind regards, BKhon 01:36, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
That seems a bit unusual to me. Generally speaking, the way we organize files is based on a master instrumentation score order. The trend is the same if it's a violin sonata, in which case the solo part(s) precede the piano part, or if there is a collection of orchestral parts. And BKhon, just because Sibley does something one way does not mean we have to follow suit, or even that it is the most efficient system. They are actually rather slack at including correct and relevant information on their pages. Examples include 1.) Wrong or mere "guessing" of publication dates, 2.) omission almost entirely of plate numbers, 3.) the use of non-unicode font system which leaves out necessary characters in composers' names, and 4.) non-standardization of piece titles, essentially only putting as a title what the publisher indicates on the cover, which when coupled with the lack of necessary accents can render a reading of the page next to useless. Daphnis 01:43, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
Not to mention often (perhaps unavoidably given how their database works) writing 1890, 1900, 1910, ... when the information they're passing on - easily accessible from other library catalogs (via WorldCat, say) - is no more accurate than "189?", "190?", or even "19??"- sometime in the 1890s or even sometime in the 20th century (for publication date, I mean.) That is, many of their inaccurate 1900 publication dates come from other librarians' guesses that something was published either in the first decade of the 20th century, or sometime... in the 20th century... (I've been thinking for a long long time, as I got practice in it myself that is, of putting together some tips for people working on the Sibley Mirror Project. Vain though that makes me... wouldn't make a half-bad collaborative project of its own maybe, if kept briefish and guidelines/tips instead of more rules, I think :) ) Eric 01:59, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
Daphnis, I think you missed my point. My point wasn't that the Sibley way was more efficient at all... far from it. I have strong disagreements with the order that Sibley puts the scores in. This is what I am saying: At this point, 1000's of files have been added from Sibley. Since IMSLP needs to be uniform, I would say about 99% of those files from Sibley are put in the order where covers are last. For the sake of time, I think it would be easier that we just leave it be, and continue uploading files in the order Sibley puts it. The reason is because if we changed this, we would need to go back and change nearly every Sibley file that has been uploaded. Sorry, I think standardization is crucial. I consider my primary purpose on IMSLP is to make sure everything is uniform and standardized. But I think time and effort of the administration staff must be considered when the ultimate outcome isn't something that will make any profound difference. BKhon 02:03, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
I agree that consistency is extremely important. I must not have observed the trend to put the covers last in the file order. If this is how it's going to be done here then I'll follow suit. Daphnis 02:13, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

I also haven’t noticed the trend to put covers last. Since we do divide publications on a completely arbitrary basis already, what is the rationale for listing an edition’s contents in a different order to the publication order? This seems to be inherently confusing. Philip Legge @ © talk 11:27, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Philip, I agree. I have noticed (or at least THOUGHT I noticed) the opposite, which is to list the cover first, then solo part, then score, but I'm trying to give the benefit of the doubt since others probably do more Sibley work than I. In any case, I still believe it should follow this order since this is how a piece is usually assembled, but I'm not going to resort to fisticuffs for it. Daphnis 13:40, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
Personally, I think the cover should go first. But the trend in Sibley is to the put the cover last (not saying that's really the best thing to do, but it's already done for 1000's of files). Schissel notices the same trend, and he's practically the god of the Sibley project :) BKhon 14:30, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
Several very bad jokes occur to me, all shelved, but thanks much :) Have decided for myself to finesse the issue for now by shelving the covers unless they contain actual information not otherwise available (e.g., copyright or dedication information cropped on the other scans), and not just keep them because they look nice, as previously! Eric 15:13, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Since I’m not keen on typing lots of these : I thought I’d re-employ the {{outdent}} template I purloined from Wikipedia. I don’t think it’s the largest problem with the Wiki, but is the above suggesting that front covers and prefatory matter should now always be put after the scores, rather than before?!? For all works, not just Sibley? o_O Philip Legge @ © talk 05:04, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Ravel, L'enfant

Daphnis, Could you please contact me via email Thank you Stuchash

May I ask what this is in reference to? I generally don't make it a habit to contact users outside of the IMSLP forums and talk pages. Daphnis 13:34, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Chôros No.3, W206 (Villa-Lobos, Heitor)

Hi Daphnis, I notice that there's no copyright notice on the first page of the parts for this piece, but you still tagged the US copyright as expiring in 2024 (based on the date for the score), as opposed to C. Are you basing this on the absence of reprints, or do you have another reason? Thanks, KGill talk email 00:47, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Hmm, I guess I hadn't noticed that when I was in a rush to get these things put together. Off the top of my head, I don't recall seeing reprints of these parts, which isn't conclusive, but is a fairly good indication these may be protected. While I can't remember specifically about these parts, it is possible they had a copyright notification but it had to be removed due to watermarks or library stamps etc. I think it is fairly unlikely I did this to every first page, but if this is going to be considered a case where it could be available in the US, it may be prudent to obtain another physical copy of these parts and have a good look. Daphnis 02:27, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Daphnis & Chloe Suite No.2

Hi, I note that the original publications were entitled "Fragments Symphoniques " (I and II) - which you (or someone) have helpfully included in the alternate title field. Is there any difference at all between the Garban arrangement for 2 pianos and the orchestral suite that you know of? It appears to be a straightforward arrangement of the second suite from what I could see. I'll change the header to 5 equal signs so that the category walker can read it as a two-piano arrangement. If there is some sort of sequential difference, or material present in the Garban arrangement not found in the second suite, we can add in the 4-equal level designation "Selections - Fragments Symphoniques" or something along those lines to point out that its different from the standard suite 2. Cheers, Carolus 22:01, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

I was actually investigating this before you left the message and after I submitted the score. My suspicion stems from the fact that a solo piano transcription of a selections over on the main Daphnis page are also entitled "fragments" and so for that reason I went ahead and listed the Garban transcription as a "fragments symphoniques" until I did a more thorough comparison. Daphnis 22:13, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Thank you

-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 04:18, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

No problem. I hope I got them all. Daphnis 04:48, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

I think you did. Thanks for fixing my page too. EQ's might be getting a letter from a lawyer about his repeated attempts at vandalism. Carolus 06:09, 16 December 2010 (UTC)


I noticed that the score for the "Five Variants on Dives and Lazarus" is currently unavailable. Is there any idea as to when it might again be available, or how I might get a copy? Thank you for your time. ChipotlePipes

Another 35 years in the US. The score should be available for sale at many online locations. Daphnis 17:03, 7 January 2011 (UTC)


A certain person at our very favorite Viennese music publisher has made mention via back channels that the Max Brod (d.1968) German translation is still protected in Canada, which I have to admit is probably true. It's free in the USA of course and has even been reprinted by Dover. I'm blocking this for the time being until it can be relocated to the US server. Carolus 05:40, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Alright then, I suppose that's fair of them to mention. Daphnis 12:53, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Sibelius Symphony No. 6


This item is currently blocked [TB] for "technical reasons". What is the problem and is there anything I can do to help?

I'm not daphnis, but the reason that it is blocked is due to it's being in copyright in the US and EU. I'm afraid that there is nothing that you can do but wait.-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 03:19, 12 January 2011 (UTC)


I'll see if my local library has Malcolm's George Enescu: his life and music which refers to the composer's preface to the 1950 edition of something according to the Google preview- maybe the octet, maybe not, can't tell. Eric 02:09, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Good deal. Let me me know if you can't get your hands on it and I'll grab a copy. Although my assessment is by no means definitive, this is just my suspicion based on Enoch and other publisher's tactics. In any case, assuming this is purported to be a new "edition", I very, very seriously doubt this would be eligible for a new copyright. Daphnis 02:11, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

In the meanwhile- I'm too often near the library 'in transit' and too rarely actually go in, lately, unfortunately; must again write down lists of the several-to-many books and scores and listening items I will make use of next I do explore that quite good library - anyway. But see User_talk:Carolus#Enescu_octet - barring any amazing revelations from Malcolm, I think it very most likely you are right. Eric 16:21, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Oh right, I forgot to mention that this piece (score and parts) was reprinted by Kalmus. Daphnis 16:25, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Dans la forêt, Op.22 (Gédalge, André)

" has the beginning of a listing of texts of the poems of op.22, which make it clear that they are not all by Bouchor, however."

It's not that clear! "Complainte du naufragé" on a text by Bosselin, #4 on the Recmusic page, does not belong to Dans la forêt, but to Les Vaux de Vire (#3)... I think Recmusic's song order for Gédalge is spurious. Pierre.chepelov 22:00, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Erm, I wrote that. Why are you complaining to Daphnis about it? And no, it's not at all clear, and I am now confused. I will write and ask Ms. Ezust... it's unlikely to be a matter of a renaming of the poem whose content is unavailable. But in the absence of an actual copy of the original 1903 score... well, yes, I will ask her or at least try to get hold of her by email or otherwise. Doesn't mean I'll get a response of course. Her mother and I used to be email correspondents but that means naught :) Eric 22:04, 31 January 2011 (UTC)'
That said, they still may have reordered the poems- I can believe that Le Sentier is first in order as her page claims, and not Épanouissement as Recital Publications does- though again I don't have a reason to believe one way or the other and would have to see the 1903 score. For piano piece cycles like Heller's the order seems to have varied randomly with the publisher and edition, and opus 47 no.12 might be one piece or another from his opus 47 set depending on what year and what publisher- but with a song cycle changing the order can be quite another thing, so I hope they did not do that... Eric 22:11, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
If the cycle have been reordered, it certainly was not by Recital. The titles' engraving looks old, and French!... Maybe between 1902 and 1903 ther order changed... BTW, there's an (partial) older edition here (pub. in the newspaper Musica, 1901). Pierre.chepelov 22:29, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Satie, mélodies et chansons

Dear Daphnis: Thanks for these -- I would like to tag them, but I don't know which were the mélodies and which were the chansons and I would rather not use the generic "song" if possible. Would you be able to give a list of which is which? Alternatively, do you know of a source I could go to that would give me the breakdown? (Steltz)

The Grove article is probably the best I can suggest off-hand. Daphnis 05:33, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

String Quartet No.3, Op.74 (Reger, Max)

Hi Daphnis. I just happened to notice that the edition of the parts you uploaded for this piece appears to be edited by Eduard Drolc (1919-1973) (non-urtext - fingering, bowings, etc.). According to the Copyright Office, the 1963 reissue was registered and renewed, so I've taken the liberty of removing the file as I don't really see any way out of its being under copyright in all the major areas. Thanks, KGill talk email 02:06, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Hmm, not sure how this one slipped through the cracks, and I can't remember if we (Carolus and I) had a conversation about this a while back. Anyways, probably best if it is removed. Thanks. Daphnis 02:09, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Huré Violin sonata & Cello sonata

Hi Daphnis! Have to say I'm very happy finding so much French repertoire here, I'm a big fan. I have a comment about your scan about Jean Huré's Violin Sonata: the scan quality seems to be very uneven, there are some pages that take forever to load, but are in fact of inferior quality. Example: page 19 (page 4 of the piano score), but every 5th page or so from then. Would it be possible to harmonise these with surrounding pages? Thanks! cvdwoest 11:00, 10 February 2011 (CEST)

What program and version are you using? Daphnis 14:44, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
I notice longer page loading times with Adobe Reader 8.1.3 under Linux, evince Document Viewer 2.23.0 under Linux, as well as the most recent Preview under Mac OS X, so I presume there is an artifact of the files involved. Inferior rendering only in Mac OS X Preview. There's the same behaviour in the Cello sonata in F# minor, IMSLP59809, pages 2 in the cello part and 1,7,8,13,15,17,21 in the piano score (printed page numbers). Sorry btw for not reacting for a long time, I thought I'd get notified of your reaction here, but I wasn't. cvdwoest 17:15, 9 May 2011 (CEST)
These files were created with Acrobat pro 9.x. Try with that version or higher. Daphnis 15:59, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Dialogo della musica (Galilei, Vincenzo)

I wonder what basis you declared the 'style' of this book to be 'Medieval'? The publication date is 30 years after the Susato Dances (third music box, 1551) and 80 years after Petrucci's first printed music using moveable type (Harmonice Musices Odhecaton A, 1501.) Given that both of these were squarely in the Renaissance period, that might be a better style. Generally, Medieval end point is called between 1450 (think Gutenberg) and 1517 (the latest date used, based on the death of King Ferdinand II.) Galilei's use of White Mensural Notation and arabic numbers for calculations also point to Renaissance. Tiorbinist 01:13, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Indeed. This was a simple slip-up as I was in the middle of posting about a dozen items. Thanks for the heads-up. Daphnis 01:45, 11 February 2011 (UTC)


Hi Daphnis, Thanks for your message. I'm in holiday at present... I'll give you many informations about this publisher in few days... --Squin 17:22, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Ok, I'm back ... ... The firm is founded in 1863 by Charles Enoch (1804- 1883) with Wilhelm (1840-1913), the elder son, and Emile, the younger, with the following proportions : 4/10 for Charles, 4/10 for Whilhelm, 2/10 for Emile. In the first year only very few score are edited (in 1875 plate n°63),... the imprint is Enoch Père et Fils = Plates E.P. et F. ###........ on 1/1/1880, Costallat is associated and the imprint change : Enoch Frères et Costallat = Plates E.F. et C. ### (about plate n°490-500)..... Emile leaves the firm but I don't know 31.12.1894 Costallat leaves but 3 others members of the Enoch family are newly associated (Daniel-Mardochée, Georges Abraham, Marguerite)... The new imprint is Enoch et Compagnie = E. et Cie #### (about plates 2250-2300)... for plate numbers year after year, if you want to manage I can send you a table (give me a your mail)as I've do for some publishers as Grus, Troupenas, Rouart, Gallet and others; or I can put it directly on Enoch page. addresses : 30 rue Meslay (1863-1875) + 23 Boulevard Saint-Martin (1874-1875) ; 27 Boulevard des Italiens after 1875 --Squin 16:18, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Brod: Oboe method


Our friends at Lemoine are really attempting some nonsense here. Looking at the score you uploaded, my bet is that this item was issued in an edition by Gillet sometime in the 1880s (based on the Lemoine plate number 9516 and Gillet's dates). They may have even reprinted the Schonenberger score from the 1830s, but to be honest the engraving looks more like the work done in the late 1800s and early 1900s by an outfit like L. Parent. The 18347 number suggests early 20th century, and I've confirmed printings from ca.1890 and 1947 on OCLC. The 1963 copyright claim is just outrageous, of course. Carolus 04:59, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Ok makes sense. I wasn't very satisfied with the brief research I did; it was all I had time for at present and I intended to come back to it. Glad you did some further digging. I'm hoping to get a few photocopies from the Schoenenberger score at some point for comparison. Daphnis 05:10, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Lemoine plate H.L. 9516 is edited in juanary 1889 (in 1889 we have plates 9515 to 9602)...........but n° 18347 is edited in 1895 --Squin 16:24, 25 February 2011 (UTC)


Dear Daphnis!

Excuse for bothering you, but could you, please, send me (on my e-mail) scores of Villa-Lobos' Bachianas Brasileiras 1-4 (as for 4, I need an orchestra score) and 6?

Many thanks.

My e-mail is: [email removed]

No, I do not do that. Daphnis 18:27, 13 March 2011 (UTC)


Do you mind trying to find publisher information for these songs? I can't verify it.-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 22:58, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

I think I tried to at one point but couldn't verify it either. Without grabbing the several different publications out there it would be a difficult task. Daphnis 23:00, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

OK. Thanks-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 23:48, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Roger-Ducasse's Orphée

Hi Daphnis - Just a question - did you intend to delete the file I had uploaded earlier of the vocal score to Orphée? I do not doubt that your scan is superior in quality, but often there are considerations of file size and what may or may not be included in the front matter which warrants the old uploads remain. Thoughts? Massenetique talk email 00:01, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi, and yes, I did intend to delete the file. Carolus and I as well as some others had this discussion a while back. The justification in doing so, such as in this exact instance, is where we have two files that represent the EXACT same edition, both sans third-party markings of any kinds and that essentially represent "clean" printings, and one is clearly superior in quality. In cases like these, there really is no compelling reason to keep around the lesser of the two files, even if the file size is less. While, true, removing redundant files of inferior quality does free up some server space, removing them also removes potential confusion from users, especially those who constantly chide us for having files of dubious quality. We need to always be in the business of providing the best quality materials to the masses, especially when everything else remains constant. Daphnis 02:43, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
I completely understand. Thank you for clarifying -- this is helpful because I have had the desire to delete files for the exact same reason but did not know the prevailing policy on the subject and have left imperfect scans alongside some I have uploaded. I will keep this in mind for the future. Best, Massenetique talk email 03:03, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
By all means, yes, proceed. With the vocal scores by U of Toronto, for example, I would love nothing more than to see all of them replaced with high-quality, 1-bit scans. Daphnis 03:08, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
I agree, but for the time being most of them are better than nothing. Thanks, Massenetique talk email 22:12, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Daphnis et Chloé for 4 hands, by Léon Roques

Hi Daphnis, It's a pleasure to see all your great uploads. Have you the 4 hands transcription of Daphnis, by Léon Roques? I added it to the wishlist. Thanks!--Goreld 14:01, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Yes, actually, I do. I'll try to post it in the coming week. Daphnis 15:09, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi Daphnis, thanks for the post! It seems to be the 1st suite only, will you scan the 2d suite by Roques? You should put it in the 1st suite page instead of the full ballet (or I'll do it). Have a nice day Goreld 07:52, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I'm going to post the second suite as well. And I've moved it the first one to the appropriate page. Daphnis 15:10, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Second suite now available. Daphnis 20:22, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Great! Goreld 01:21, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

I gather quartet no.8 has a copyright notice of 1936-

but even if not, I think on the server we're being very careful to restrict to pieces actually published before 1923. I realize PD-US has other clauses. I may be mistaken. I have deleted the Milhaud quartet 8 page. It can of course be restored; I have not deleted the file though I advise doing so. Eric 18:52, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Schissel, please check with me first before deleting pages. This piece has been injected into the public domain in the US due to faulty copyright notice and is verified as it is currently offered for sale in the Masters reprint catalog, from which this reprint comes. There are a few cases of this happening in Milhaud's and other's works as well. I have restored the page. Daphnis 18:55, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Ah, they didn't renew. Will do - but may I suggest that lack of renewal or similar be mentioned on the page itself (unless I missed?)- as very often is done. Not only because of other admins, but others who view the site. Thank you. Eric 19:00, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

It wasn't a matter of renewing or not. There are a variety of ways a certain publication may have its copyright nullified or invalid, and failure to renew is but one of those. I may not be able to verify absolutely every single piece that was published after 1923, but it is quite safe to say that due to this being reprinted by a notable publisher (and 10 years ago at that), it is quite legal. Daphnis 19:02, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
Also, the entire Milhaud page is a work in progress right now. I'm doing a lot of work on this as far as gathering pieces and information goes, so it might just be best to wait for a few days after something has appeared. Often I'll submit something and tweak things here and there before coming back to it later when I have more time. Daphnis 19:05, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

FTE template for US server

I just added 5 more to the template. Let's see if it picks up an additional 5 files after the cache clears. If it does, It shouldn't be too tedious to up the file-stack to 40 or even 50 for the template. Carolus 03:35, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Ok, thanks. I'll see how it works after a couple of days. Daphnis 03:36, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

I see that Feldmahler (who is amazing) has already solved this problem! Carolus 04:13, 8 April 2011 (UTC)


In going through some of my archive here, I've discovered that I have some actual old Chester parts, to wit:

  • Pribaoutki
  • Berceuses du chat
  • Renard
  • Les noces

I will have someone I know in the area do some cleaning as there are quite a few superfluous markings, etc. At any rate, can I send these to you for scanning once they're ready? I'll see what I can do about locating us a set of the 1919 suite (not the McAlister edition) as well. Carolus 04:10, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Sure thing, I'd be glad to scan them. I still need to get your initial mountain of things back to you soon. I don't know how worthwhile it would even be to scan the 1919 suite parts (non-McAlister) if you found them. They appear to be copyist manuscript and are absolutely chock full of errors. Daphnis 13:35, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

I've read that too, so I am a bit apprehensive. At any rate, the other items above should be OK to have. I also have a Muzyka score of Les noces we can add later. Carolus 03:58, 9 April 2011 (UTC)


Joplin's co-composer, Arthur Marshall (1881-1968), is not free in Canada. You'll need to move to the US server as soon as you can. Carolus 01:35, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Man, I stupidly didn't even check for that!. Thank you for looking over me--I'll transfer it tomorrow. Daphnis 01:36, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Vaughan Williams - Five Variants on Dives and Lazarus

If you would be so kind, could you send or direct me to this score? I am a student and this could really help my contrapuntal string writing... my email is [REMOVED] i would really appreciate it

I'm sorry but as I have no way of verifying geolocation (and thus adherence to copyright law in your country), I do not email my scores to individuals. If you are actually a student (at a university/college), you likely have access to some interlibrary loan program, through which this score is readily available. Daphnis 03:30, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

George Enescu String Quartet Op. 22 #1

Hello Daphnis, can you shed some light on this subject. I am somewhat puzzled about the claim that this work is not PD. According to the publishers (Salabert) who published the work in 1921, it is still listed as 1921 on Durand-Salabert catalogues: It has been 90 years since its publication, how is that not PD? Is it possible to contact you by email regarding this work? Please let me know. bravi1

The dates in parenthesis represent date of composition and not publication. By my research, the first quartet appears to have been published in 1957. This isn't odd considering many of his early works were also issued towards the end of his life or postmortem. Daphnis 19:53, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Bartok String Quartet No. 4

Hi Daphnis, I saw, that you have uploaded 4th String Quartet by Bela Bartok. However, the score is still blocked. I really need the score for analyzing it. Please, can you contact me ( or send me the score? Thanks a lot! --Aschrofel 10:03, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

No, sorry. I do not email my scores. Daphnis 15:21, 15 May 2011 (UTC)


Looks very fine. I tweaked one thing (prefix instead of formats). Impressive. How's the perusal score acquisition going? Send me an e-mail if you need any help. Carolus 01:14, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

No perusals in a while. I really haven't had the time with other work going on. Daphnis 01:17, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Mahler Symphony n°7

Hi Daphnis, I did some modifications to some files you uploaded (Mahler 7th symphony), please have a look to the discussion page [[1]] and tell me if you agree with these scripts. Thanks.

Looks fine to me. I can't remember if these scans are my own or if I downloaded them from some place. At first glance, they don't look like my work, but in any case the clean-ups look better. Daphnis 15:27, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

La Cenerentola - Rossini

Ciao Daphnis - I am looking for the full score to Cenerentola and see that you were the poster for the full score of the overture. Any chance you have the full score? Mille Grazie - Gfsiciliani

Sorry, but no chance. I uploaded the overture from a collection of Rossini overtures. Best of luck, Daphnis 19:57, 22 June 2011 (UTC)


As discussed. Feel free to {{LinkEd|Daphnis}} yourself whereever else you deem necessary! Cheers Philip @ © talk 04:02, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

Very nice, thanks! Daphnis 04:09, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
I’ve just discovered you’ve recently contributed a full set of orchestra scores of the Prokofiev symphonies. All I have to say to that is, awesome! Philip @ © talk 05:05, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
Ah, good, I was wondering about such a template. Daphnis 13:11, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

Chabrier: Suite pastorale

Our intrepid uploader SmithRob, inspiration for a whole new set of guidelines, as elected to bless us with the second movement. Having been edumacated in the "2 x 4" school of tact and diplomacy, I was wondering if you would like to do the honors. Carolus 02:16, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Hi boss,
the honours have already been dispensed, though as yet there is no reply. As far as the guidelines go, they are clear: the instant whereupon we came across a set of the Enoch parts, then Mr Smithrob’s parts would be subject to more or less immediate deletion. They are very poor.
Strictly speaking, I am thinking of withdrawing some of my typesets which are not up to my current standards – especially as some now essentially duplicate long-published editions that were added subsequently.
Also for you to ponder: I bit the bullet on Shostakovich and wondered if you had any comment to make (preferably on the forum thread if anywhere). Cheers Philip talk 02:30, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
Yes, I've already addressed this on the forums and on his talk page. I've also received a personal email response from him that's rather scathing and I'll follow up on his talk page. Daphnis 02:37, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
Hi Daphnis, please see my edit on that forum thread. Philip @ © talk 03:00, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

So noted. I already posted a response over at his talk page. I welcome other input should anyone have it. Daphnis 04:01, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

And here you were so nice and polite. I added a point to his talk page. It was a very busy day of tagging, so I didn't get over there until late. I talked with Feldmahler about it and he agrees that as long as we're up-front and clear about what the standards are, uploads are subject to this type of review. While the desire to contribute is appreciated, there are some things which really do not enhance the site. Carolus 06:43, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
And I tried to be honest but understanding about this. Oh well, can't please everyone. Daphnis 12:20, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Donizetti: Concertino

Hi, Did Meylan actually create the piano reduction or was he simply editing one that was already made? Carolus 05:04, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Damn, in my haste I think I embarrassingly overlooked that. I believe he created the piano reduction, which means it'll probably have to come down, or at least have the reduction removed. Daphnis 05:05, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Probably. Unless it's one that is so lacking in originality that it's merely a transcription of the 1st violin part to the right hand and the cello part to the left hand. Carolus 05:07, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Ideally that would be the case, but I don't have that information. I'll update this tomorrow with removal of the piano score. Thanks for looking over my often-careless shoulder. Daphnis 05:20, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Gédalge, Violin Sonata No.1

Thanks Daphnis for reconstructing the missing violin part of Gédalge's first violin sonata and sharing it. The engraving looks very nice and close to what the original edition could be. --Matthieu 08:56, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Glad someone can use it! Daphnis 13:15, 5 July 2011 (UTC)


Hello Daphnis,

you published the file Romanza_appassionata_(Chaminade,_Cécile) but I couldn't find it in the list of compositions. Then I found on this website that it is Op. 31. But I'm not sure if this is true. Please could you check, if the composition is included in 3_Morceaux,_Op.31_(Chaminade,_Cécile) and if yes move the file to this work page? --TobisNotenarchiv 15:00, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Neither that site nor our present work list is a definitive source. In any case, it does not appear to be the same, therefore it should remain on a separate page. Daphnis 19:38, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Hi Daphnis, I couldn't check it because one of the files was TB, that was the reason why I asked you to check if it is the same file. Thanks for your answer. --TobisNotenarchiv 09:59, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

Met Project

I have available the following full scores if you wish to scan them:

  1. Mozart: Don Giovanni (ca.1941 Peters urtext score in the Dover reprint)
  2. Rossini: Il barbiere de Siviglia (Broude Brothers reprint of Ricordi - same score reprinted by Dover)
  3. Donizetti: L'elisir d'amour (Ricordi edition, n.d.)
  4. Massenet: Manon (Dover reprint of Heugel)

Let me know.... Carolus 04:25, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, but I've already arranged to get most of those myself. And even still, since they're all readily available, getting them through my institution would save you and I any shipping charges. Thanks for the offer, though. In general, do you have any comments about the idea? What about an (un)official collaboration between the two, or at least acknowledgement of each other? Daphnis 13:03, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Vexations (Satie)

I know you did some research into this, but I'm letting you know I changed the date of publication from 1949 to 1949. It has a unique publication history: first published by John Cage in facsimile form back in 1949. Then it was published again in 1958 in the Art News Annual, vol. 27 (facsimile), for which I have confirmation. It wasn't engraved until 1967 when it appeared in a review. 1969, however, is not the correct date for first publication. My source is Satie the Composer, by Robert Orledge. Best wishes, Lndlewis10 15:44, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Nick, thanks for the consideration, although this isn't necessary provided you have a well-researched and documented source. I would include mention of this source somewhere on the work page, perhaps in the Misc. Comments section at the end. My 1969 publication date was probably lifted from Grove, which itself was likely referring to date of first commercial engraving. Best, Daphnis 15:47, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

User Page

Hi Daphnis. I noticed that you dropped a message at PML's talk page about organizing your user page. Since it wasn't protected, I went ahead and did something I thought looked nice. Originally I was going to send you the code, but for some reason it wouldn't send properly. Please feel free to revert the edit if you dislike the change. Respectfully yours, Emery 01:56, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Thank you kindly. I do have a question, however. There now seems to be several rogue "Edit" options towards the middle of the page. Can those be removed? Daphnis 02:29, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Luckily an easy fix. Respectfully, Emery 02:36, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Hmm, I rather liked having a TOC, but regardless, it didn't seem to fix the issue. I have 7 edit links beside IMSLP Cleanup star. Daphnis 02:37, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

I can't figure it out myself. I don't understand why having the organization box would cause the edit buttons to appear. Maybe it is something that won't bother you too much? If it does, please remove it and we can start from scratch. Respectfully, Emery 02:49, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Oh, ok. Well thanks all the same! Daphnis 03:04, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
Just a note, Emery, that I had a look at Philip's nice user page and fixed the problem by stealing his __NOEDITSECTION__ code atop the page. Works just fine now! Thanks again, Daphnis 13:55, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

A long time ago...

you left a comment for me on my discussion page. After a very busy springtime, I am finally getting back to answering some emails and uploading nice things to this site. Sorry for the llllllllllllooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnngggggggg delay. --Homerdundas 17:32, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Lanterne magique, Part II, Op.55 (Godard, Benjamin)

Hi Daphnis. Just wondering why you changed the capitalisation of "magique" in this title, which seems to go against our guidelines? Thanks — P.davydov 14:49, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Hi Davydov, I was just standardizing the title with the other parts of Lanterne. It should most likely be lower case, but since I don't know the genesis of the title or specifics about the work(s), I opted for consistency. If you feel it should be lower case, go ahead and change the other parts as well. Daphnis 15:39, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Another user seems to have moved part II to lowercase, but left the other three as they were for some reason. Anyway, they're now all in lowercase. Thanks — P.davydov 16:15, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Very good, thanks, and welcome back. Daphnis 16:16, 25 July 2011 (UTC)


Hi Daphnis. I'm passing along the helpful message Carolus sent to me about tagging covers. If covers are tagged V/V/V they appear as a performance edition of the work, which creates problems in situations where the work itself is not V/V/V and therefore cannot be printed. To avoid the problem altogether, covers of non-PD works should be tagged V/V/C. Thank you for the Sibley contributions. When I tried upload a file earlier this morning I encountered a strange error (#28), so I'm glad to see it appears to be a problem at my end. Respectfully, Emery 04:01, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Ah, ok, thanks for the note. Daphnis 04:03, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Benjamin Godard, étude biographique (Clavié, Marcel)

Hi Daphnis. According to BNF, Clavié died in 1963, putting this out of reach of the main server for another couple years. (Unless you have information that indicates otherwise, in which case please excuse this message. I couldn't find anything on him in any of the obvious places, though.) Would it be too much trouble for you to put this on the US server? Thanks, KGill talk email 02:59, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for that info, KGill. I couldn't find a death date for him, which is why I marked it as "Checked". I'll now move it over to the US server. Daphnis 03:03, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Apparently, there's a problem with adding this to the US server, so I'll try again tomorrow. Daphnis 03:42, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

US Copyright

Hi Daphnis. Carolus and I are writing a page for US copyright and I would value your input. Here is a link to the page. I noticed that you frequently upload pieces to the US server, and that is fantastic! If it's not too much trouble, would it be possible for you to move my periodical scan when the problem associated with creating the category is settled? Respectfully, Emery 04:19, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

I'd be glad to contribute. Is there anything specifically I can do? With Carolus on the job I'm not sure what I can add that he doesn't already know. Daphnis 05:17, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

Hi Daphnis. There are a few things that would be very helpful:

  1. Proofreading
  2. Making sure the sections are ordered in a way that makes the most sense to IMSLP users
  3. Building the list of copyright cases relevant to IMSLP
  4. Adding a level 3 header under each of the sections with relevant court cases about them. For example, some well known cases involving "Fair Use" are Elsmere Music, Inc v. Nation Broadcasting Co and Original Appalachian Artworks, Inc. v. Topps Chewing Gum, Inc. which set a precedence for plagiarism as fair use.

I also think it would be useful to have a page with simple detailed instructions about the US server. Even though there are directions on the forums, I think some people are still confused. It doesn't seem like it would hurt to have an internal page explaining what it is, why it's there, how to access it, and how to upload. I think the US copyright page would be one convenient link to the page, but it will also be included in several other places. Do you think it would be worth it? Respectfully, Emery 15:58, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

The last bit about the US server might need some thought. At present, I think it's really only designed and authorized for administrators and other experienced contributors. We might need to talk with Jonathan if we're to determine it should be opened up to the masses. Daphnis 19:16, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

Hi Daphnis. I didn't mean to imply that I thought it should be open to the masses - I don't even have access. I think having the page still serves a purpose, as I explained above. Respectfully, Emery 19:31, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

La fille du régiment - Martin translation

Thomas Martin (1909-1984), Ruth Martin (1914-2000) - not free in Canada or EU. The Donizetti score has an unambiguous 1971 copyright claim. Protected worldwide, it would appear. Carolus 04:01, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Damn, WorldCat is down for me and I couldn't check the dates; basic Google searches didn't turn up much. I was crossing my fingers but I suppose we'll have to delete it. Clearly, however, their translation was affixed to a much earlier engraving, most likely free sans English translation. Daphnis 04:03, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

It's particularly aggravating when publishers do that! At least they could have engraved a new score. Carolus 05:50, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Dionysiaques, Op.62 (Schmitt, Florent)

Hello Daphnis. I have a longstanding interest in this work. I see that the original score is restricted for technical reasons, but the piano transcription is not. Do you know the reason for the restriction, and whether it is likely to be lifted any time soon?

Thanks, NB. notoriously bombastic

The full score is blocked because it was published after 1923 and thus copyright in the US. The transcription was published before this date and is therefore free. I don't believe this restriction is likely to be lifted any time soon, sorry. Daphnis 15:39, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the quick response. So in US terms, publication + 95 = 2024. For EU, death + 70 = 2028. Yet for Canada, death + 50 = 2008. So I'm surprised that it's not available. Am I misunderstanding something?


Take a read here. Daphnis 16:47, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
Maybe IMSLP:Copyright Made Simple would provide a bit more direct guidance? ;-) Cheers, KGill talk email 16:52, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Gotcha. I hadn't found that page via the FAQ. It'll be a long wait...

Unfortunately so, yes. If they had published the full score when they reserved the plate number, it would be in the public domain, but alas, no. Daphnis 19:46, 24 August 2011 (UTC)


Hallo Daphnis. I have just seen your upload.(,_Antonino%29) I don't know if it's a scientific publication , but you have to know Pietro Borgonovo is still alive. Now it's a conductor se here Greetings

Hi, yes, I'm aware he is a conductor and most likely still living, however this composition falls under the editio princeps rubric and therefore public domain in Canada and the EU. Daphnis 14:45, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

3 Poèmes de Jacques Mornand (Inghelbrecht, Désire-Émile)

When you uploaded this you put the instrumentation as violin, piano, but there is a language and a librettist, so I suspect you meant voice, piano. However, I am not in the States, so I can't download and check. I will tag it for voice, since WorldCat says that was the original. Could you please double check it? If it is for violin, it's probably an arrangement? Thanks, Steltz 11:32, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, simple mistake. I fixed it. Daphnis 14:25, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Ledet edition of Devienne Opp.70, 71

Looks like they put a copyright claim on it after all. The previous uploader must have omitted it in the scan. Still OK for EU and Canada fortunately. Carolus 03:36, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Ok, I thought you guys might have debunked this claim as bogus, hence my reason for not including it. Thanks, Daphnis 03:37, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

It looks like it was actually engraved in 1985. Most things were produced in Korea back then, by a hand-stamping method. Pre-computer days. Carolus 03:49, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Good to know. FYI, I've removed the sub-par scans of the oboe part to the opus 71 sonati. Daphnis 03:50, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Roussel Trio Op. 40 - missing a page?

It seems as though the flute part to the Roussel Trio Op. 40 is missing some of the second movement? Thank you for all your uploads!

Darn! Thanks for the report. I'll fix it as soon as I can. Daphnis 22:27, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Looks like just page 4 is AWOL. Thanks!

Added missing page 4 and also re-scanned the flute part in 600dpi. Thanks again. Daphnis 22:31, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Enescu Symphony no. 2

Hi. I was trying to find of copy of that piece, and then I notice the pieces was composed one hundred years ago, and the composer died fifty-six years ago. Why it isn't public domain? ThanksNartonf

It's public domain in Canada and other life-plus-50 territories only. Daphnis 15:38, 3 December 2011 (UTC)


Please forgive any presumptions, as I'm a newbie here, if not to wiki software! In your contribution Barcarolle,_Op.108_(Saint-Saëns,_Camille), you mentioned under "Arrangements and Transcriptions (2)" that one of the downloads included the MusicXML file. Since I've just discovered the amazing Myriad Music browser plug-in, I'm keen to find as many (piano compatible) MusicXML parts as I can, but could not find any sign other than your mention of said MusicXML file. Any further light would be most gratefully received. You can email me, BTW, soon as I've set-up my site preferences. Many Thanks, Trev M 00:45, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

If you download the PDF I created, you'll see several attachments, one of which is a MusicXML file. Daphnis 02:21, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Help about a score you uploaded

I noticed that you are listed as having up loaded Joseph Canteloube's opera 'Vercingétorix'. It is now not able to be shown due to copyright. I am wondering, where did you get it from? I would really like to learn this opera. Please contact me: [Email removed]

I prefer not to contact users off the wiki, so I'll respond here (hope you're watching this page). The score in question is currently unavailable due to our voluntary observation of US copyright law, where it is protected. Unfortunately, it will not be downloadable for quite some time and we don't know yet when this will be exactly. Your only option is to purchase the vocal score (still available from Heugel) or check a copy out from a local library. Daphnis 13:08, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for your response about 'Vercingétorix'. You say it is still available through Heugel. I know you have no reason to, but would you be able to help me? Where have you seen it available? I have searched the internet and Heugel Publishing doesn't even list it as being in their catalogue. If you have seen it available, would you mind passing on the details? I'd be really really grateful.

Hm, I also see that it isn't available for sale, although last time I checked it was. If you can tell me where you live I might be able to give you the location of the closest copy. Daphnis 15:40, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Béla Bartók

Hi, Daphnis. May I have the full score of Music for Strings, Percussion, and Celesta by Bartók?

Sorry, but it is blocked due to copyright concerns in the US. We do not share these files with outside users. Daphnis 22:43, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

de Falla

Hola Daphnis, necesito "como el comer" la partitura del retablo de falla que ahora la han cerrado por los derechos, mi email es [REMOVED] puedes escribirme y hablamos? gracias!!!

No, lo siento. Daphnis 15:13, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Chôros No. 10

I really want the score of Villa-Lobos' 10th Chôros.

Great to hear. I really want an original Gutenberg Bible, but both are equally unavailable presently. Daphnis 18:20, 3 March 2012 (EST)

Opera arias

What's you favorite aria from an opera of all times? I like Puccini's "Nessun dorma" from Turandot.

I don't have a favorite aria really. Daphnis 21:39, 10 March 2012 (EST)