User talk:Homerdundas/Archive


Alex ander Street Press, University Music Editions, CPE Bach Piano Sonatas, Mozart and more

Hello All,

Thanks for your messages. A few comments follow, plus I am in need of a bit of guidance here.

I have access to Alex ander Street Press from which I am copying the UME works. Processing these files is 'quick and easy' - so I do a few from time to time, as opposed to my other scanning projects - which are more long term. Anyway, on ASP there are presently 41 CPE Bach piano sonatas, 562 works of Mozart and many, many others.

On the CPE Bach sonatas I posted, you recorded the reprint publisher as being Dover. After researching this, I think rather, that these were scanned from Da Capo Press who reprinted the original 'Trésor des Pianistes' in the 1970s. I will examine the Da Capo editions in the next few weeks to find out if the page numbers match.

If you have a better way of organising the CPE Bach sonatas, I'd be delighted to follow your suggestion. I'm not a pianist and don't have any special knowledge of this corner of the musical world. Did the Farrenc editions include the complete CPE Bach piano sonatas?

The UME Mozart works seem to be all Breitkopf. Is it worth spending my time uploading these? Are these all included in the Neue Mozart-Ausgabe? Is it worth having both?

ASP also has a large number of works listed as being from "Harvard University Press (1950)". However, I have no idea from what source publication they come. Judging from the page numbers, they were scanned from a larger work, perhaps an educational compendium. Examples-

Factus est by Aichinger, Gregor, 1pp
Auf, mein Geist by Albert, Heinrich, 1pp
Passamezzo antico by Ammerbach, Nicolaus, 1pp

Would you be able to guess the source? Might these be PD as well?

One free music site I discovered is [chamber music arranged by Jay Lichtman, Hartford University]. Is Mr. Lichtman's declaration sufficient to include his arrangements in the library? I don't want to bother him about including CC notices in his files, if I don't have to.


Hi, It's been a busy week so my apologies for taking so long to respond. I noticed that Da Capo had reprinted the CPE Bach works as well, so it's entirely possible that the reprint scanned was by them instead of Dover. It's easy enough to change once we determine for sure which it is. I'll post a question on the forum this weekend about which catalog is best to use. Helms appears to be more comprehensive, but I still see a lot of Wotquenne. Harvard University Press did issue a few publications covering early music in the 1950s. There could be some copyright issues there. I'll look these up in the Heyer book. It is definitely worth uploading the "Alte Mozart Ausgabe" form Breitkopf. Yes, the NMA is much better, but there are a number of volumes of NMA still under copyright even in Germany. As for the brass arrangements, you can upload only those items actually arranged by Lichtmann - there are arrangements by others at the site also. We should include at least the lowest-level CC notice (attribution) on any arrangement. As we've seen from the recent business on the forum, Sheet Music Archive has no problem charging money for even the original works of living composers who've uploaded here. Carolus 14:37, 21 November 2008 (EST)
In my opinion, it is extremely worthwhile to upload the Breitkopf Mozart Ausgabe editions - see Category Talk:Mozart, Wolfgang Amadeus. Also, these have no legal strings attached, and, finally, these editions need to be preserved online. At some point, the originals will be too far degraded to be usable. This will never happen to electronic files - and reprints are doubtful of happening over and over again of the entire set. Plus, the engravings on the breiktopf is prettier :)Snailey Yell at meEmail me 18:51, 21 November 2008 (EST)

Hi, I just stopped by first of all to give a big "thank you" for the tremendous contributions you've been making. It's wonderful to see all of the Mozart and Schubert titles added. Three Cheers! A question: Do you happen to have access to the Alex ander Street / UME film of the Glinka complete works? A friend of mine is looking for the 1966 Muzyka score of Ruslan and Ludmilla, so I thought you might be the person to ask. Thanks, Carolus 15:39, 30 December 2008 (EST)

Hmmm... There are about 229 works by Glinka on ASP -- the Ruslan and Lyudmilla is Musyka 1966 edition, editor is Georgii Vasil'evich Kirkor (d.1980), Also, "Microfiche Reprint Edition" Boris Schwarz editor. There is an english table of contents and few other pages that appear to be added probably by the reprint editor. Most of it is the original Russian edition, however (libretto in cyrillic type, etc.). Since Kirkor died 1980 it therefore isn't PD? If it is PD, I will be happy to transfer it to the library. Also, it would be several weeks until I could do this. --Homerdundas 16:57, 30 December 2008 (EST)

Actually, since Kirkor was working as an employee of the state (Muzyka, a government agency), and the edition he prepared (like the entire Glinka edition of 18 volumes, issued 1955-1969) is an urtext-style edition, the edition is not protected in either Russia itself (not that anyone pays attention to copyright there anyway), Canada, the USA, or the EU. Excerpts from the Glinka complete works have been reprinted by Kalmus, Lucks and Alex ander Street Press (via their acquisition of University Music Editions). The copyright rules for urtext or critical editions are different than those for the heavily edited type of edition one finds from International, where a 'name' performer has added all sorts of dynamics, slurs, fingerings, and articulations. It gets more complicated when a realization or reconstruction is involved, but the urtext stuff is protected only for a maximum of 30 years from publication (optionally) in the EU. The courts have really addressed critical editions in the USA yet, but decisions like Feist v. Rural and Bridgeman v. Corel have established the doctrine of the "threshold of originality" solidly enough that most legal experts take the view that such editions are generally not subject to copyright protection at all in the USA. However, until there's an actual case, we have to observe the 95-year rule for those issued before 1978 (provided they were published with the required notice and renewed - which is why you see a fair number of Baerenreiter items reprinted by Kalmus), or the life-plus-70 rule for the editor for USA tagging for now. (most of our traffic is from the USA). At any rate, there's no great rush, so I'll be happy to tag them whenever you post them! Carolus 02:06, 31 December 2008 (EST)


The Nabucco Overture you posted appears to be a new engraving, rather than the typical Lucks reprint of an older publication. While their copyright claim of 2000 is highly dubious, especially in the light of no editor credit being present, we're not particularly eager to get into a courtroom brawl to prove public domain status. We are voluntarily observing a 25-year limit on new engravings (nothing less than 25 years old without permission), just to avoid any needless legal entanglements. Thanks for all of you posts! Carolus 18:46, 5 July 2008 (EDT)


Hello. We are temporarily blocking the microsoft digitized scores, because we are not sure about the legal status of the microsoft logo appearing on each page. Our expert Carolus is away now, but when he's back we'll make a common guideline in this case. Best regards, Peter talk 17:39, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

Schubert: Die Bürgschaft - song (D.246) vs opera (D.435)

Thank you for yet another Schubert opera!

...but just checking the catalog (D-numbers)...

Schubert wrote a lengthy song (mini-opera? tableau? dramatic scene?) called "Die Bürgschaft" in 1815 (D.246) to a text by Schiller.

He later used a libretto based on the same story to write the unfinished opera (D.435) in 1816. So the two are separate works and need to have their own separate work pages.

I've got 2 left thumbs when it comes to work page organization (plus I have a long and heavy day at work ahead) so I'm not sure how to rearrange these.

(Source: Schubert Thematic Catalogue, O.E Deutsch, 1950; Kalmus reprint)Aldona 15:03, 25 November 2008 (EST)

I'll take care of this. Thanks for the observation. H.

Good work! The collection becomes more complete every day. This is very exciting.

What other Schubert works do you have in progress? (so that we don't double up). Aldona 06:40, 26 November 2008 (EST)

There are about 500 Schubert works available online, it is fairly easy to dewatermark and upload them to imslp. I am taking the opportunity to crop them as well - most have the outline of the page edges and background. I can do about 5 pages a minute. I was going to do some more masses next.

Very good - I'll work on the incidental music to "Rosamunde." (just acquired a copy.) Unfortunately I can only snatch a few minutes of scanning here and there between work and other stuff, and I certainly can't match 5 pages a minute, so it might take me a week or two. Aldona 15:01, 26 November 2008 (EST)

Schubert: Alfonso und Estrella

Thank you so much for posting my favorite opera! (and probably all-time favorite piece of music.)

When I saw it there under "Recent Additions" I just about fell off my chair. I have been looking for it everywhere for years and it was one of the few Schubert works I couldn't get hold of in the form of the Kalmus study scores.

Coincidentally, just 2-3 days ago I finally located a copy on AbeBooks (Dover reprint) and ordered it - so now I will have 2 copies!

This is the best early birthday present ever!!

Aldona 03:14, 21 November 2008 (EST) (not Catholic, but born on St Cecilia's day)

As per the forums, I must req1uest that you upload the symphonies. It is unbelievable that we don't have these vaulable scores.Snailey Yell at meEmail me 11:14, 21 November 2008 (EST)
Thank you for Symphony No. 7! Snailey Yell at me Email me

SeuLunga: Many thanks for this Opera! I can hardly believe it's finally here! On the other hand, the score you posted as Symphony n.7 (D.729) is the Great C Major (aka n.9 or n.8), D.936. I have a copy of the manuscript of the D.729 (it's the Unfinished E major), and may upload it, as soon as I have enough time and a scanner :). Also, many thanks for the Mass in A-flat. If you keep on this (Fierabras, Mass in E-flat), you and Aldona will be in my people-I-love-list :D.

Hello SeuLunga, sorry to butt in here, but it's great to see another member of the "Alfonso & Estrella" fan club!
As for your note on the Great C major Symphony - when I saw "Symphony No. 7 (D.729)" on the list of recent additions I thought someone had found the missing "Gmunden-Gastein" symphony. It's really not fair to mess with a Schubertian's mind like that - there is only so often that one can fall off one's chair in a given week. It's not good for my blood pressure. (just kidding).
I am currently working my way through scanning "Die Zwillingsbrudert" and possibly "Die Burgschaft" may be next. (if I can tear myself away from my newly printed score of "Alfonso & Estrella" and my CD player, that is...) Aldona 22:47, 23 November 2008 (EST)

Schubert: Die Zwillingsbruder

I'm about half-way (up to page 46). With these shorter operas (e.g. things with only one act), I have been scanning each musical number (aria, chorus etc) as a separate file. With the longer works, your method probably works better.

Unfortunately I have been a bit slow on the scanning because other things keep getting in the way (work, housework, choir, family stuff, etc) but I will try to finish it in the next day or two. My scanning is very low-tech compared to yours so I promise not to complain if you upload it first. However, I would be happier to finish it and do it myself, thus leaving you more time for the symphonies (which are great - thank you once again) and other stuff.

If you have "Fierrabras", it would be much appreciated if you could upload that. I have a Kalmus copy but I was leaving it to the very last to scan, as every time I look at its 537 pages I turn pale and go back to the shorter works. (not to mention the Kalmus mini-score binding being very scanner-unfriendly with such a thick little book).

Keep up the excellent work! Aldona 01:06, 25 November 2008 (EST)

Sorry, no "Fierrabras". :-(
Can we get Fierrabras (or other work) from (SeuLunga)

Mozart Piano Concertos

Sorry to be pestering you like this, but after the Operas, the Mozart Piano Concertos are the only major hole left in his output. By any chance, would you happen to have them?Snailey Yell at me Email me 12:26, 17 December 2008 (EST)
They seem to all be there... If I don't go crazy with all of this I'll start with those soon. Do I get a reward for all this work? No? Not even a peanut? Oh well, I'll just have to try to enjoy the music. :-o --Homerdundas 12:38, 17 December 2008 (EST)

The 2-piano reductions...not the full scoresSnailey Yell at me Email me 12:45, 17 December 2008 (EST)

2 Piano Reductions??? You don't have an orchestra??? Shame. Actually all I have are the real thing. No reductions. Sorry.

I wasn't clear. All that's online are the reductions. We need the full scores....sorry.Snailey Yell at me Email me 11:03, 18 December 2008 (EST)

Ah-ha! All is clear now. I'll finish the operas first... then the concertos... then the.... --Homerdundas 11:45, 18 December 2008 (EST)

Thank you! How 'bout stopping with Mozart after this...Schumann or Mendelssohn Maybe....or we could finish the complete Schubert - that would be cool.Snailey Yell at me Email me 21:23, 18 December 2008 (EST)

Hello homerdundas. Thanks for your tireless work on uploading. Could you perhaps keep track of your Mozart uploads on Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart - Complete Works Edition? I try to do this, but as I don't get the logic behind the order of the uploads it's hard to follow :) best wishes, Peter talk 13:26, 6 January 2009 (EST)

**********ALL DONE!!!!*********
Thank You!Snailey Yell at me Email me 07:32, 7 January 2009 (EST)
"Thanks for your tireless work on uploading."
Agreed.--Snailey Yell at me Email me 12:23, 7 January 2009 (EST)
Thank you! How 'bout stopping with Mozart after this...Schumann or Mendelssohn Maybe....or we could finish the complete Schubert - that would be cool. (reiterated)--Snailey Yell at me Email me 12:23, 7 January 2009 (EST)


Thank you for your great UME contributions. I have been looking for the Mozart minuets for a long time, so this was a wonderful addition for me!--Snailey Yell at me 12:16, 16 November 2008 (EST)

On a related note - I'm surprised at the fact that we're missing the WAM edition of the "Ah Dirai-je Mamon" variations. Do you have these? They would be a nice addition - and also attract a lot of traffic; they're very popular.Snailey Yell at me Email me 08:12, 23 November 2008 (EST)
My god, you're fast. Thank you again for these pieces! You are truly a wonderful person!Snailey Yell at me Email me 09:18, 25 November 2008 (EST)

Mozart clarinet concerto

Not sure why you put it down for series 11/no421 as it is really 12/622. It's fixed now.-- Snailey Yell at me Email me 16:52, 13 March 2009 (EDT)

Sorry about that ... I was about to cut and past from the first entry and reorganize the page - but got involved doing something else....

Sorry to beat you to the chase with the parts ;-)-- Snailey Yell at me Email me 17:22, 14 March 2009 (EDT)

...and that's a nice typeset too! They even paid some attention to page turns. OK. so why didn't you upload those a few weeks ago... would have saved me some time getting the parts for my orchestra (we're doing it at our next concert). So many works and so little time.

Speaking of page turns, I printed out the Hebrides Overture (Mendelssohn) for our orchestra. The parts were generated with no attention to page turns. Since the printouts will be used as loose sheets it is doable, but it would be nice if people would post the source program files also, so we could perhaps massage the parts ourselves... That's all for now... --Homerdundas 19:43, 14 March 2009 (EDT)

I only looked on Mutopia today. I think these parts came out something like 2 weeks ago.-- Snailey Yell at me Email me 20:25, 14 March 2009 (EDT)

your suggestion

Hi Homerdundas, thanks for your suggestion. I've posted a reply on the talk page. --Leonard Vertighel 02:40, 20 January 2009 (EST)

Wilbye index

I moved it to Index of Vocal works by John Wilbye, as you can see from the composer page. Hope you don't mind; you can find it in Category:Composer Composition Lists now, however!-- Snailey Yell at me Email me 21:19, 25 March 2009 (EDT)

Mendelssohn's Paulus

Does UME have this? It's one of his few major works remaining. Thanks!-- Snailey Yell at me Email me 21:05, 30 January 2009 (EST)

... there seems to be a database error accessing Paulus ... I could only get the overture. I'll complain to the library about this so perhaps some day they will fix it. --Homerdundas 13:02, 2 February 2009 (EST)

Schubert: Fierrabras

From Violette87220: Hello,Homerdundas! I am a Chinese Musicology Student. My major is western 19th Century music. I am especially interetsed in Schubert.I want to do some researches on his opera. Although my school has the schubert complete work, they missed one of his greatest Opera , Fierrabras.After searching on the google, I am a bit frustrated. If I cannot find the score, I shall shun to another topic.I even cannot find one place to buy it. Could you or anyone you know upload it?Or, can you give me further information about where can I buy it at a reasonable prices?If you get some info ,can you write to me?Thanks a lot!

Hi Violette87220... I'm sorry but I don't have Fierrabras to upload for you. Perhaps, you could also post a request on the "Forums --> Score requests" for others to see. I could get you others that are not yet on IMSLP:

Des Teufels Lustschloss, D. 84
Die Freunde von Salamanka, D.326
Die Zauberharfe, D.644

Let me know if you would like these.

--Homerdundas 11:08, 1 April 2009 (EDT)

Thank you for your suggestion. I have post my request on that forum.Your scores are of great vaule to me,espcially the Singspiel Die Zauberharfe,D644.If you could upload it ,you will do me a great favour!Thank you!


Schubert Symphony No. 9

You uploaded the score of Schubert's "The great" symphony, but titled it under the unfinished D. 729. I have corrected the error and placed it on a different page. The unfinished D. 729 was not part of the complete works edition, and plate F.S. 7 is "The great."
You noted above that you have a manuscript of the E Major. This would be a wonderful addition!Snailey Yell at me Email me 12:57, 23 November 2008 (EST)

(Defending myself) I was misled by the Alex ander Street Press! On closer inspection, their numbering, indexing is completely incorrect. Also, it is numbered 'Siebente' on page 1: 7th. However, I now realize there are numbering issues with his symphonies - :-) Thanks, for your changes. This website is attracting some amazing people, eh? Homer.

Yes, the numbering has been debated heavily. I call it 9 because I am american, but the situation has gotten so confusing that some have just started referring to his symphonies by Deutche number.Snailey Yell at me Email me 20:46, 23 November 2008 (EST)

See my note under the previous heading. Seriously though, if you can find any of Schubert's lost, fragmentary or unfinished works (not included in the Breitkopf + Hartel "complete" edition), you will have an enormous fan club. Aldona 22:50, 23 November 2008 (EST)

Ah, thank you very much for more symphonies! Please add these to the edition's page to help any researchers!Snailey Yell at me Email me 20:38, 24 November 2008 (EST)
I'm considering stealing some thunder here and uploading D.729... :D (SeuLunga)

Vereinigung zur Förderung guter Gitarrenmusik

Hello, Homerdundas, by correcting the title I didn't want to be a smart-aleck. Sorry, Ralph Theo Misch, 02:04 (MEZ), August 5, 2009

Hi Ralph, Thanks for your message! The title does need correction - at least it should be vereinigung - the Guitaremusik is verbatim from the file - I don't know enough german grammar to say whether this is correct - or has changed since 1906!

I have also found the first volume 'Heft I' - so I think I will put all the volumes on one work page - and remove 'Heft III' when I make the correction.

Mozart Operas

Thank you for all of your mozart dances and variations! However, we are missing some of his best works - the operas. If you have these, they would be incredibly wonderful to have!--Snailey Yell at me Email me 12:44, 3 December 2008 (EST)

Hey... I was working up from ...numbers... A...B...C... Ok, Ok, I'll look for some operas. only about 500 works to go!  :-D.

Thank you! Wow. You are really a fantastic person. The operas (in order of how important I think they are to have:

1. Cosi fan Tutte-------done.
2. Don Giovanni --------<<<We already have it!!! - but not this edition :P
3. Die Zauberflote-------------------done.
4. Le Nozze di Figaro --------------done.
5. Le clemenza di Tito-------done
6. We already have Die entfurung aus der serail
7. Idomeneo ---------------------done.
8. Zaide ---------------done.
9. Thamos, konig in Agypten ---------------done.
10. Lucio Silla (((I don't have)))
11. Il re pastore ---------------done.
12. Mitridate....Done
13. Die schauspielsdirektor --------------done.
14. sogno di scipione ---------------- done.
15. Ascanio-----------------------<<<<< done
16. Finta Semplice --------------- done
17. Apollo et hyacinthus ............... done.
18. bastien und bastienne. -------------DONE.
Sorry for my spelling!Snailey Yell at me Email me 20:57, 3 December 2008 (EST)

Thanks for die zauberflote! Snailey Yell at me Email me 20:57, 3 December 2008 (EST)
And Cosi, and ascanioSnailey Yell at me Email me 16:17, 5 December 2008 (EST)
Only three more to go!Snailey Yell at me Email me 12:17, 17 December 2008 (EST)
Oh, and I suppose I should thank you for the complete mozart variations. It seems like you have uploaded about half of the featured scores that I find!Snailey Yell at me Email me 12:19, 17 December 2008 (EST)
We only need one now...I'll try to find Lucio Silla.Snailey Yell at me Email me 12:46, 16 January 2009 (EST)

Luigi Torchi

Is there any particular reason for all of the things edited by mr. Torchi, or is this just a UME sorting thing? Just wondering.-- Snailey Yell at me Email me 21:27, 25 January 2009 (EST)

Hi, I seem to have taken a detour from my usual German composer's and am transferring works from the Italian renaissance. Judging by the page and plate numbers, these seem all to be from one original Ricordi compendium. This entire volume was edited by Torchi. These pages happen to all be broken up into individual works on the source web site. From gaps in the page #s, there seem to be some works missing from the collection. It would actually be easier to combine them again and make one pdf, rather than uploading them piecemeal. Oh well....

Ricordi Torchi Page

I really cleaned it up; I hope you don't mind.-- Snailey Yell at me Email me 10:47, 26 February 2009 (EST)

Thanks ... I am sort-of making it up as I go along -- suggestions are *very* welcome. I'm thinking I should link back to the works just like some of the 'complete works' editions. I think it might be a very long page however - so I will experiment with >1 column etcetera...

One factor is that I don't have all the works in the collection. To fill in the holes I will have to find a library with this collection and scan the missing numbers. That would be a long term project.

I also don't have the contents of all the volumes - though I am still searching for them, in Worldcat etc.


Thanks for the CR codes - nice touch, and very much needed.-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 23:22, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes, very much needed .... by *me*. I keep forgetting what they all mean. I went searching for them... couldn't find... finally found in the forums. Now I can use my own FAQ :-)

I had the same problem - so I put them on my user page. Your solution is much better.-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 23:48, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
You have new messages
Hello, Homerdundas. You have new messages at Perlnerd666's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{newmessages}} template.
-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 23:58, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Hah! Look at what I found on IMSLP Talk:FAQ - "Perhaps we should add the meanings of the copyright codes - I found them on the forums, and pasted them to my user page? If not here, could we link to a page that contains the definitions from the codes themselves?--Snailey 22:37, 5 September 2008 (EDT)"-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 01:01, 30 July 2009 (UTC)


Hi again - long time no see. Were you planning on adding any works to Fux's page (Gradus ad Parnassum, perhaps?) - otherwise, no matter how nice the list is (it is nice....) - it's rather useless.-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 19:33, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

(just readjusting from a nice vacation trip to Netherlands and Ireland...)
... Actually I'm getting at least 50 works ready to upload, just organizing them properly with K#s and so forth has proved a bit of a struggle. There are also other cataloguers who have discovered more works, and I'd like to get them all organized before I upload. It's nice to edit something online - i.e. automatic backup - in case I mess up.

Hey - we will have to start measuring this library in Kiloscores. we're up to about 32Ks!! very neat. --Homerdundas 21:08, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Wow - 50! Thanks a lot. And, after orchestral parts (I estimate that to be ~6000 scores (!)) and another new source (talk to carolus) that could potentially almost double our current number of scores (o.O) - that brings us to something close to 70,000 (of course this will not happen in a month, or even perhaps a year)-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 22:06, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

So, will we see Gradus Ad Parnassum?-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 00:07, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

I don't have it, so I guess not. So I guess Costanza e Fortezza is out of bounds? (my [forum post] was never conclusively answered).

I have absolutely no idea (well, an idea, but nothing conclusive). Carolus could probably tell you all you need to know.-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 00:15, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

I just answered at the forum. Upload away - it's free. BTW, when adding items form the Danish Royal Library, use the following link [ Det Kongelige Bibliotek] in the scanner field. Just a little courtesy to them for making their amazing collection available. Carolus 03:49, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks so much for this infux of scores (I'm terribly sorry)!-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 01:40, 30 July 2009 (UTC)


Why do you not consider Romeo and Juliet, and Harold in Italy as symphonies? That's what Berlioz called them, and they are generally classified as such.
An aside: let's get back on the wagon with uploading, eh? ;)-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 20:50, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

... Ok ... If the composer called them as such, I will definitely move them. I was thinking 'tone poem' - or other programme music, a symphony for me is more of an abstract work... (but then again, what to do about Beethoven #6, etc?). The answer is.... um.
I haven't done much uploading lately... busy fall. But lots of projects ready to work on! --Homerdundas 20:55, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. That's really OK - I certainly can guess, but the projects are truly excellent - I'm still mulling over that Victoria missing only 5, the C.P.E. Bach, Fux, DTO, DDT, Mozart, Schubert, Rameau, and, and, and... - so I'm waiting.-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 20:58, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Moved.-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 21:01, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Albinoni: Organ Concerto

Hi, Talbot does not list any Concerti for Organ, as far as I can tell. I wonder if what you're planning to post is an arrangement. Carolus 22:03, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

... Hmmm... slight confusion here on my part - I might ask your assistance perhaps...

Title is:
Concerto del Sign'r Tomaso Albinoni appropriato all'Organo

This work is for organ alone. I was about to upload it, when I realized it was from volume 26 of Denkmäler deutscher Tonkunst, which, according to Worldcat contains compositions of Johann Gottfried Walther (1684-1748). Therefore...

I now guess this is an arrangement by Walther for Organ of something written by Albinoni. Perhaps a concerto for another instrument? (Though I have seen the word 'concerto' used for other sorts of compositions). Perhaps I should upload the files and let you look at them? There are two such compositions, both are from A. Street Press - and are poorly documented on their introductory pages.

That's interesting. My guess is that it's an arrangement of something - perhaps by Albinoni, perhaps merely attributed to him - that Walther made (a very common practice at the time). I think the best course is to upload the entire DTO volume as Walther and list the arrangement in the contents. If we can determine which Albinoni work was arranged, we could then have a separate workpage (if needed) for it. Thanks, btw, for keeping that list of orchestra and band parts updated. Carolus 04:06, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Now that I investigate a bit... that volume of DDT is already in our library! Includes the very items I was going to upload. Perhaps I will make a searchable index of works from the table of contents. For the Albinoni - see pages 285 and 289 of Walther's collected organ works. --Homerdundas 04:46, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Jay Lichtman

Brass Music
All sheet music may be freely distributed without restriction. This music may not be resold, it must remain free for all.

accessed: --Homerdundas 00:41, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, Looks like he's good to go. BTW, use single brackets on the external URL link. Double brackets are for within the IMSLP wiki only. Carolus 03:51, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

CCARH Scores

Hi, CCARH has been uploading their own items here. It's probably best to let them do it, since their chief concern about items being on IMSLP was that we'd end up having older, incorrect versions here instead of the latest. If you want to help them get their catalog up here, that's great. It is best to co-ordinate with them before you do, though. Thanks, Carolus 02:24, 31 March 2009 (EDT)

Alyabyev: The Nightingale

Do you happen to know who orchestrated the song? Kirkor is just the editor. Carolus 20:29, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Mikhail Ivanovich Glinka ... I'll update the page

Mozart's 40th Symphony

Hi Homerdundas! I want to thank you for your contributions. especially those of Mozart, but I was wondering if the files you posted in Mozart's 40th Symphony (Edition Peters) are Originally arranged for string ensemble? I'm waiting for your respond! you can write me back at: Thanks!

Musica Storica

It appears from their site that these items will be OK to post here - and I plan to tag them accordingly. However, have you asked them to confirm that it is OK with them? We've had a couple of other cases where the typesetters demanded that we take their files down despite the free availability at their own (and even other) sites. It's not as if we're running out of things to upload here. The Danish Royal Library alone could bump us up to 50,000 files, and we've only hit the high spots with Google Books (which require some processing, unfortunately). Thanks, Carolus 02:20, 10 June 2009 (EDT)

Hi Carolus, No I haven't checked with them. I'll send them an email to confirm. I just like the genre of works that they have on their site... I am still picking away at UME and Napoleon Coste and my own scans - all in no particular order. I saw others busy with the Royal Danish Library, so I haven't persued that myself. I see the 30000 mark approaching! --Homerdundas 02:27, 10 June 2009 (EDT)

Do you believe it? We will have literally doubled in size in the year since re-opening. Thanks in advance for e-mailing. They'll probably be fine with it. Carolus 02:30, 10 June 2009 (EDT)
Permission Email

Hi, Thanks for contacting them. For now, this is a good enough place to access the letter. We'll need to set up a category page for these for easier access and reference at some point, since I think there is also an extant permission letter from Pierre Gouin. I'll ask Perlnerd666 to set it up, since he will probably know the best directory where it can be stored long term. Carolus 00:31, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Musica Storica links

Hi, and thanks for all the links. However, could you put these under "|Extra Information=" (Create it if necessary) so they're integrated into the template? Thanks.-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 19:57, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Oh, and how much of Denkmäler Tonkunst does UME have? I finally looked up the Snailey Talk to Me Email me 21:17, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Well... hundreds anyway - it's not in a form where I can simply say that x% or x years are available - I'll just keep plugging away for now --Homerdundas 22:34, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Wow, thanks. That's fine, really. They have stuff like Gluck's Orfeo for instance.-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 22:38, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Musica Storica 2

The complaint came while you were in DC - sorry for forgetting to post earlier. They have expressly forbidden their items to be posted at IMSLP. Thanks, Carolus 01:06, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

In that case, perhaps this should be deleted as well? KGill talk email 01:17, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
And this? KGill talk email 01:19, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
Or this? KGill talk email 01:24, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

All of them. Thanks for finding those, BTW. I thought we'd gotten rid of them all earlier. Wonder why they didn't show up on my search before.... hmmm. Carolus 01:26, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

You're very much welcome. I'll let you know if I find any more. KGill talk email 01:36, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
Here's another KGill talk email 01:38, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Jeepers... and we asked specifically, and had an email from them with permission! The wind is blowing which way? --Homerdundas 03:24, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

CPE Bach Sonatas

First, I'd like to thank you for your wonderful CPE Bach uploads. I would like to point out that the Sonata in B Major, WQ 59/3, is missing the last page in the first movement. Do you also have access to other sonatas of the "Kenner und Liebhaber" series, for example, the wonderful Sonata in f minor, Wq 57/6, the Fantasy in C, Wg 61/6, and the sonatas 56/2 and 56/4? The Dover edition, book 2, of CPE Bach works has some of these, I believe (except for the Fantasy). It would be great if the Complete "Kenner und Liebhaber" series were in IMSLP; also, there are some other sonatas in the "Tresor des Pianistes" (later put in the Dover edition of CPE Bach) that are great, and could also be placed here. Just suggestions...though I'm sure all those other CPE Bach fans out there would agree whole-heartedly!

Hi - Yes I have more sonatas to upload - I kind of left off in midstream some time back. I was uploading all kinds of sonatas - all titled sonata in B major - sonata in C - sonata in Bflat etc etc. Someone was puzzeling about how exactly they should be organized etc. I can resume uploading them (there are an infinite number of wonderful things to upload) - but do you have any ideas about how to organize them better than they are - also do you have a complete list of CPE Bachs works - that might help with indexing etc. I am not a pianist - so I don't have much special knowlege of this area.

I'll have a look for the sonatas you mention - and do them first.

--Homerdundas 21:18, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Hi Homer, Maybe I can help you with the CPE Bach stuff. I've really been getting into his music, and have complied, for example, a list of all the works in the "Kenner und Liebhaber" series, complete with the date of composition of each individual piece. Here is my list_ (The first date in each group is the date of publication of that particular collection; The "x" simply mark the works I already have)

CPE Bach: Die sechs Sammlungen für Kenner und Liebhaber (Wq numbers)

I 1779 II 1780 III 1781
55/1 Sonata C, 1773 x 56/1 Rondo C 1778 x 57/1 Rondo E 1779 x
55/2, Sonata F, 1758 x 56/2 Sonata G, 1774 57/2 Sonata a, 1774 PDF x
55/3, Sonata hm 1774 x 56/3 Rondo D 1778 x 57/3 Rondo G 1780 x
55/4 Sonata A, 1765 x 56/4 Sonata F 1780 57/4 Sonata d 1766 PDF x
55/5 Sonata F, 1772 x 56/5 Rondo a 1778 x 57/5 Rondo F 1779 x
55/6 Sonata G, 1765 x 56/6 Sonata A 1780 x 57/6 Sonata 1763
IV 1783 V 1785 VI 1787
58/1 Rondo A 1782 x 59/1 Sonata e, 1784 x 61/1 Rondo Es 1786 PDF x
58/2 Sonata G 1781 x 59/2 Rondo G 1779 x 61/2 Sonata D, 1785 x
58/3 Rondo E 1781 x 59/3 Sonata B, 1784 PDF x? 61/3 Fantasia B 1786 x
58/4 Sonata e 1765 x 59/4 Rondo c, 1784 x 61/4 Rondo d, 1786 x
58/5 Rondo B 1782 x 59/5 Fantasia F, 1782 x 61/5 Sonata e, 1785 x
58/6 Fantasia Es 1782 x 59/6 Fantasia C, 1784 x 61/6 Fantasia C, 1786
58/7 Fantasia A 1782 x

Besides a lot of these sonatas, the second book of the collection printed in the Dover edition also contains some other great works, my favorite being a sonate in E major, whose number is, I believe WQ 65/46 (composed in 1766). Ironically, I already have TWO copies of the DOver edtion, but one is in storage in Spain, and the other in the states, and I am now living in Japan; since I have most of the works in pdf format, I'd like to complete the collection in that format, instead of buying the same edtion again here (which I haven't seen in any stores anyway).

ALSO: There is a GREAT site with a chronological list of CPE Bach's works: [1]

If you'd like any help organizing the works you have, maybe I could help you, if you'd let me know the ones you have. Keep up the great work! dbolton

....Wow, I see my table got all messed up when I put it in the User talk section. Is there some other way to get it to you? (email, for instance?).

CPE Bach

Hello, I'll second Snailey's above commendation for the UME items. They're very fine additions indeed - thanks. I'm planning to pose a question on the forum about how we should handle the 100 or so Piano Sonatas (and other works) by this composer. My eyes start to glaze at a long list of Sonatas in A major, etc. As you can see from the link I've added on his composer page, there are 2 catalogues in use, the Wotquenne and the Helm. Wotquenne has some advantages as far as the Piano Sonatas are concerned, since there are several sonatas under a single catalog number (though I think the 50 sonatas he listed under Wq.65 might be a bit over the top). The Helm is a more recent (and probably more comprehensive) catalog, but I wonder about how widespread its use actually is. Your thoughts, of course, would be greatly appreciated. Carolus 00:48, 17 November 2008 (EST)

    • about your uploads of more sonatas of CPE Bach (January, 2010)***

Thank you so much! I had been really looking forward to getting these sonatas, and was delighted when I entered the site this morning and found them! I really appreciate it, as will many others. I strongly recommend that anyone who is a fairly decent sight-reader download these, and play through them: there are many gems among the works of CPE Bach. Thanks again, Homer!

Your Respighi discovery

....has generated a great deal of interest among those at a certain publisher, located in Florida. They could not find a renewal in their personal copy of the Catalog of Copyright Entries, and plan to be making a personal trip to the copyright office in March to confirm your finding. Stay tuned..... Carolus 06:39, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Any news? Daphnis 22:50, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Um... Maarch!! reel soon noow...--Homerdundas 00:01, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

That is quite remarkable. I would have thought that one would most certainly have been renewed! (Respighi entered the PD here in .au years ago, but still.) Philip Legge @ © talk 09:04, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
Word has come from on high: "full score registered under E 609687 on 16 April 1925; renewed under R109677 on 1 April 1953 by Elsa Respighi as widow. It doesn't get any plainer or clearer than that--this is a dead issue." I thought it was too good to be true - and so it was. Carolus 05:32, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
For future reference - has anyone said why we all had trouble finding it - a filing error by Copyright Office - or by Ricordi perhaps?--Homerdundas 03:27, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
They told me they found it right away when they looked in the renewal volume for items issued in 1925, which I think was issued in 1953. Ricordi filed the renewal right on time in Elsa's name, just as with everything else of his. They missed it for some reason the first time they looked also, so there must be something a little irregular about it. Carolus 05:51, 2 March 2010 (UTC)


I left a message at the talk of List of Orchestra or Band Pieces with Parts Available. Would you please be so kind as to respond?-- Snailey Yell at me Email me 10:27, 22 February 2009 (EST) comment added --Homerdundas 10:46, 22 February 2009 (EST)

Parts Page

OK, so this page has gotten HUGE - which is a great thing, showing our massive collection of parts, etc. BUT, the editing and searching is IMPOSSIBLE now. So, we need to reorganize to provide more section headings (which provides for better TOC, easier editing (smaller sections), etc.). There are two routes which it seems would work best:

  1. Right now, we have 5 very broad categories: Symphonies, Concerti, Other, Strings, and Band. We could do something similar to the new categorization system (when it eventually happens...) and do meta-genres and the like - of course, tailored to Orchestral music.
    • Advantages:
      • Easy searching for many types of minds.
      • Lots of organization.
      • Tiny Sections.
    • Disadvantages:
      • Sections perhaps too small, not filled
      • Confusing to some
      • Expands page length much further
      • Duplication of effort on categorization.
  2. As others have done on "search by instrumentation" pages, we could organize by time period.
    • Advantages:
      • Easy to search.
      • Highly Organized.
      • Doesn't over-expand.
      • Small sections
      • Works with current framework.
    • Disadvantages:
      • Hard to find good names; centuries don't really work.
      • Leaves some problems of current system in place.
      • Perhaps confusing(??)

Of course, we can always do some combination of the two. Thanks-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 03:37, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Also, systematic application of NoComp seems to be helping the page size. I've taken care of symphonies. If you want to do the rest...-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 03:56, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Homer's thoughts on this

The main reason to look at this page, is to look for good stuff for an orchestra to play.

1. break out band parts to separate page

2. Categories for this page:
- Symphonies (more or less as it is - but can we compress the long lists? ... eg. Mozart by using a navigator box of some kind?)
- Works with major vocal parts should be broken out into a separate category - not all orchestras have a handy choir and soloists to accompany. (however Beethoven Symphony #9, Mahler symphonies, Holst planets - would become exceptions to that rule - that's ok). So this would basically be oratorios and operas.
- Other orchestral I'm fine with (note that this would include opera overtures - that's ok)
- perhaps - perhaps we might make another break for works expecting continuo - i.e. baroque and early classical - I can't see any other easy division point
- Solos with orchestra I'm fine with (again, can we compress long lists of numbered concerti?)
- works for string orchestra are ok

3. Works for string orchestra with continuo, shouldn't be under string orchestra - as harpsichord or organ would be expected - these should be moved back to other orchestral.

4. Works with just a few parts present (i.e. most parts missing) should not be listed on this page.

I think this page has lasted us for a good while - perhaps these few changes are enough to see us a while longer? Other changes may be more obvious as we progress. Simply shortening the listing would be of great benefit. --Homerdundas 04:38, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

OK, Great - I take that too mean Plan #1.
My ideas:

  • I think that displaying the lists with massive shortcomings is fine, especially as almost all of those are to become complete very soon, with this project (btw, do you want to join??).
  • Categories:
    • Symphonies
    • Suites, Symphonic Poems, etc.
    • Overtures, Variations, etc.
    • Choral (can include duplicates)
    • Concerti, soli, etc.
    • Strings
    • Separate Band page, if necessary.

Thanks!-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 04:43, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

And for compression, we can use Overflow - see examples on my user page, the News archive and the Featured scores archive. It doesn't have to have a border, and can be very small.-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 04:44, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

NB - The two major Mozart collections have been shortened as such. Check it out.-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 04:50, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

OK, so this is my final suggestion:

  • Symphonies
  • Concertante (solos)
  • Overtures, Symphony Movements, Suites
  • Variations, Poems, other
  • Choral
  • Strings
  • you can choose whatever for band.

-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 19:59, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm waiting for the go-ahead ;)-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 20:08, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
Hi Snailey... (I koncked out last night.... zzzz)
I had a look at the 'overflow' scheme - I have to say I don't like the look of it quite... It doesn't seem obvious or clean to have the scroll bar in 'mid-air' over on the right hand side of the screen - I did a couple of tries with an indent and horizonal line at top and bottom of the scroll area - which improved it a bit (didn't save it) - can we try the [hide] [show] table style like you use on your personal main page?
Perhaps we can just say something like 'All Mozart Symphonies scores and parts [here]'. This would keep it confined a bit better perhaps.
The genre divisions you chose are not completely clear to me. 'Symphony movements' should surely go with Symphonies? Then rather than 'Variations, Peoms, other' - we could logically just use our current title of Other - since that is the last catch-all category.
I'm away again for a few hours (2 reheasals!). will be back later tonight.

--Homerdundas 20:26, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

You seem to have the hang of it - it's pretty simple. How about just using "41 symphonies" as the title? It seems most professional.
I see your point about symphony movements.
  • Symphonies and Symphony Movements
  • Concertante (solos); Concerti Grossi
  • Overtures, Suites, Cycles, Serenades, etc.
  • Variations, Poems, Fantasies, other
  • Choral
  • Strings
  • you can choose whatever for band.-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 03:14, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm busy trying out stuff... try this page... User talk:Homerdundas/TestingParts --Homerdundas 03:18, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

I noticed...again, you seem to have the hang of the tables (all they are are pre-collapsed tables).-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 03:19, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

How did you see what I was doin' - Sysop privileges?
I guess I like the collapsible tables the best - and I guess we can use them wherever we want to save some space.
I'm still a bit confused by the differences between the two categories:

  • Overtures, Suites, Cycles, Serenades, etc.
  • Variations, Poems, Fantasies, other

If the second contains 'other' we need not specify 'Variations, Poems...', this category would just collect anything not in the first ones. --Homerdundas 03:44, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

(Quote)How did you see what I was doin' - Sysop privileges?
Try "Recent Changes" or "Page History" ;).
I was trying to differentiate between more formal Suites, etc. and Rhapsodies/Poems/Fantasies. So perhaps
  • Overtures, Suites, Variations, Serenades.
  • Poems, Fantasies, Rhapsodies, Other
is best.-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 17:33, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

My meaning was just that all we need is...

  • Overtures, Suites, Variations, Serenades.
  • Other

--Homerdundas 18:49, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Makes sense. I'll put it in.-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 21:34, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

DONE.-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 21:58, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

OK, the page is so big now that I might humbly suggest splitting it into, say IMSLP: List of ORchestra Pieces with Parts Available/Symphonies, etc. and linking in. I say this because we want to keep page load times to a minimum ;)-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 03:17, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Yes... the page is getting very big. Can we avoid making the hierarchy any deeper? (it already went one deeper recently). Perhaps we should just divide out all of the orchestral genres we have made, and put them each on its own page. This would put all 6 categories at the start of page Category:Scores featuring the orchestra.

That's exactly what I meant...subpages, just like the talk page archives.-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 03:57, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Sounds good! To confirm, this means that at the beginning of page Category:Scores featuring the orchestra, we will have the following:
  • List of Orchestra Pieces with Parts Available/Symphonies
  • List of Orchestra Pieces with Parts Available/Overtures, Suites, Variations, Serenades
  • List of Orchestra Pieces with Parts Available/Miscellaneous Orchestral
  • List of Orchestra Pieces with Parts Available/Concertante
  • List of Orchestra Pieces with Parts Available/String Orchestra
  • List of Orchestra Pieces with Parts Available/Vocal/Choral Works with Orchestra
  • List of Compositions with Orchestral Cello Parts
  • List of Compositions with Orchestral Violin Parts

--Homerdundas 04:06, 28 February 2010 (UTC) I'll go ahead and implement it. I'll also find some alternate that doesn't use a slash on the vocal works....-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 04:10, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Take a look! I hope I've done well...-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me
You have! It looks very good. Should last us until the next overflow and maybe even farther! :-) ;-)

*bows*-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 04:59, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Vaughan Williams Tallis Fantasia

I'll be removing one of the modifications you just made to the list of orchestra parts; there aren't separate parts for the solo strings as they are included on separate staves in the parts for Orchestra I. Regards, Philip Legge @ © talk 07:01, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Hmmm... I did check orch 1 parts - I guess I didn't look far enough along... Thanks for the note. --Homerdundas 07:46, 23 February 2010 (UTC)


Hi and thanks so much for all of your contributions! When you're done with all of the italian renaissance music, could you please consider some Haydn, especially the symphonies? He is possibly the only major composer of whom we're missing a great deal of major works. The seasons, the symphonies, the trios, the concerti, and the Operas are important works. For your consideration. Thanks!-- Snailey Yell at me Email me 12:32, 9 March 2009 (EDT)

Symphony #88 ---done ... score and parts

I can see the amount of work you've put into this; one of my favourite of Haydn's. What must the scores have looked like before?! Regards, Philip Legge @ © talk 22:43, 6 April 2009 (EDT)

Had I known in advance, the amount of time it would take, it would have been much better to typeset the whole thing. It's only after I had cleaned the score that I realized that the articulations were completely inconsistent between score and parts. A lot of the time went to checking the parts against the score - where I also found the more serious typos that I listed. After all this - would someone like to typeset this work....... --Homerdundas 07:38, 7 April 2009 (EDT)

Symphony #104 ... string parts posted - the rest in May.

Unfortunately UME doesn't seem have very much Haydn - they have been my main source for the 'standard classical repertoire' I have posted. I do have the Haydn trumpet concerto which I can scan in the next year or so. --Homerdundas 13:08, 9 March 2009 (EDT)