User talk:Massenetique/Archive 2


Part songs

Hello again. Our list of work types is based on one compiled by the Music Library Association, and they single out "Part songs" as a heading to be avoided because it has no generally-accepted definition. For tagging purposes we use "secular choruses" instead (or "songs" for multi-voice works without chorus). A lot of these issues were discussed before you joined the tagging team, so feel free to check if you're not sure — P.davydov 06:48, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

<edit> I just saw that "part songs" had been added by someone else (not you) to the list of categories on the tagging page, and this cause for confusion has now been removed — P.davydov 06:52, 8 November 2010 (UTC)


Hello again!Do you have any idea where I can find a score for Ritorno d'Ulisse in Patria by Monteverdi,with the vocal parts written in the violin key?I would be very grateful! Thanks in advance! Asoprano

I do not know what you mean by "vocal parts written in the violin key" -- Do you mean in more common clefs, ie. treble clef for soprano rather than soprano clef? Try asking in your native language if that doesn't make sense - I may be able to make out what you mean. We have a wonderful full score uploaded here, but I have not come across any other score in my online searches. Massenetique 23:05, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Please excuse me,my English is not so good...Yes,a score in more common clefs,if there is one.

Graupner Ouvertures GWV458 and GWV461

Hallo Massenetique, these two pieces had oboe d'amore as solo instrument listed, but the unspecified solo part is notated in Bb, includes doublestops in the inner movements: most likely viola d'amore (violetta). I inquired with Graupner 2010 and they changed their entries now. So I just corrected both works here as well, including the change in the tag. --Kalliwoda 09:49, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, I checked and everything looks good. Just remember that tagging is meant to be limited to the Tagging Project members, contact P.davydov if you're interested in tagging officially! Massenetique talk email 10:17, 18 December 2010 (UTC)


Dear Massenetique, I was searching infos about some French publishers (specially Flaxland and Farrenc) and with the guidance of Carolus, I've found and consulted a precious book on this subject : DEVRIES Anik & LESURE François : Dictionnaire des éditeurs de musique français - Vol.3 "De 1820 à 1914". Through this, it became clear to me why the chronology of plate numbers are so strange for our Heugel's page. I've seen you've made an big big work on it. So, may you have a look at the discussion we had with Carolus on his talk page - section Farrenc concluded, and on the page Heugel/Dating I created ? Tell me. Sorry for my odd English. Best, Squin 10:13, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Squin, ask Carolus if he still has scans from that volume. I use this book regularly and sent him a few scans of key Parisian publishers some time ago. Daphnis 13:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Daphnis, it seems that he hasn't it 'cause he suggest me this book for dating when I had problems with flaxland. I found it on Ircam Library (near my home) but I wasn't allowed to borrow it. So, I've took manuscript notes. Carolus suggest me to send you a table for Durand's publications due to the work you've made on that page. (see Carolus talk page). I'll do that in few days (you can't reach this book anymore ?) Squin 16:54, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the info, seems like a great resource. I will try to see if I can get my hands on a copy of this volume as well. Massenetique talk email 06:27, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
  • I just did a search and they do indeed own this volume at UC Berkeley, though it is only for reference. If it is manageable I will copy the pages referencing Heugel (and Hartmann if available) and share the info with those who are interested. Massenetique talk email 06:31, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

MS logos - NYPL items

(from my talk page) BTW, I've figured out a back-door way to have the NYPL stuff without the infernal Microsoft logos: From, you can download a zip of the original JPGs. These have no logos and can be complied into a single PDF. Check out Arthur Sullivan's Prodigal Son vocal score as issued by Schirmer (a much nicer engraving than the 1869 Boosey). Carolus 00:10, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Smart! I saw the Prodigal Son you uploaded and wondered how you got rid of the logos - thanks for the tip! Massenetique talk email 01:45, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Wurm / Vurm

Hi Massenetique. Just to let you know that I moved him to Vurm, Vasiliĭ Vasilevich (a close approximation of the LC name - probably they use the Russian spelling because he was a professor in St. Petersburg and died in Russia) from the German-spelled category you originally created. If you have any alternate suggestions then I'd be happy to hear them. (Also, I'm curious where you got those dates - are they old style, perchance? MusicSack gives 20 June as the death date, but that's from a 1936 source and I found a contradictory one from ca.1990s.) Cheers, KGill talk email 01:56, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

It was awhile between when I downloaded the Vurm piece from Sibley and when I cleaned it up and uploaded it here and I forgot about the more Russian name he was under on Sibley. Seems reasonable to me to put him under Vurm -- I saw contradictory death dates as well and went with the only one I saw more than once, but I trust your judgement there. Thanks for filling me in. Massenetique talk email 02:30, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

William Wallace Gilchrist

Hi Massenetique, you're one of three admins/librarians (p.davydov, KGill, and Massenetique) that Carolus suggested I contact regarding the formatting of titles for the composer William Wallace Gilchrist. As none of his works were assigned an opus number I've been posting them in the format of "Title, Schleifer nnn" which references the number in Gilchrist's catalog of works compiled by Martha Furman Schleifer. Carolus was wondering if there was a preferred abbreviation for referencing Schleifer's assigned catalog number. I certainly have no idea. I've posted this query to the other two admins/librarians as well. Many thanks!--Cypressdome 06:15, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

In performing some preliminary searches I do not find any reference to Schliefer's catalog numbers in Grove or in any world libraries. My suggestion is simply not to include any work number distinction at all - it certainly is not necessary and, since it does not seem to be a widely accepted system, may prove to be more confusing than helpful. That being said, I would defer to what KGill and p.davydov say - they are more experienced librarians. Cheers! Massenetique talk email 06:36, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for your guidance. It would seem that the consensus is to continue using the current format. In the catalog at the end of her book on Gilchrist Schleifer doesn't use her name or an abbreviation in the numbering of Gilchrist's works. They are simply numbered (within categories and sub-categories) 1 to 493. It would be interesting to know if the references on other sites to Gilchrist's works using the Schleifer catalog number pre-date or post-date the posting of his works on IMSLP starting in late July, 2010. Perhaps IMSLP's format is helping to set a standard.--Cypressdome 03:21, 10 January 2011 (UTC)


Hi Massenetique, just to let you know that he's been moved to Tagliafico, Dieudonné in accordance with IMSLP:Composer Names. (LC does cite Grove, so I think it's reasonable to stick with them in this case.) Cheers, KGill talk email 01:26, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Sounds good. Thanks! Massenetique talk email 06:46, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

narrated pieces

Dear Massenetique, I've retagged Tariot's Apparition and one other, because we decided sometime near the beginning of the tagging project that the generic tag for narrated pieces would be "melodrama". Thanks, Steltz

Great, I hadn't come across that before, thanks for your help. Massenetique talk email 06:47, 31 January 2011 (UTC)


Hi Massenetique, just to let you know that searching on VIAF without his middle name revealed that more than one library (including LC) refers to him as Saran, August. Cheers, KGill talk email 02:42, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Ah, very well - another good tip, thanks! Massenetique talk email 05:29, 6 February 2011 (UTC)


Hi Massenetique. You are currently in consideration to become an IMSLP administrator. Being asked to join the moderation team is a sign that you are considered to have the responsibility, good judgement, and dedication to gain and use a set of extra privileges (page and file deletion, blocking other users, and so forth). Would you consent to being promoted? Thanks, KGill talk email 20:07, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I most certainly would consent to the promotion and am honored to be asked. Thank you, and please let me know what I can do that would be most helpful - I am ready to learn and contribute as much as I can to this community! Massenetique talk email 21:14, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
Congratulations, you are now an IMSLP administrator! — P.davydov 21:57, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
Wonderful! Thank you!Massenetique talk email 22:21, 12 February 2011 (UTC)


Hi, just to let you know that he's been moved to De Giosa, Nicola - apparently, that's how Grove lists him, and LC followed suit. Cheers, KGill talk email 00:38, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

I did see it both ways and thought since we don't organize composers by prepositions that the other was more elegant - but I see now that there are more records under De Giosa than Giosa, de on loc so sounds fine to me! Massenetique talk email 05:44, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Roger-Ducasse - Orphée vocal score

Thanks for finding this...I can't believe I somehow overlooked this in my quest to find and upload all of his works. I'll be getting my hands on a physical copy of this to scan and upload soon. Daphnis 00:55, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

This was just added to from U Toronto this month -- A better scan would certainly be in order -- this one is pretty good as the products go but its still not that great. Glad you appreciated the find! Massenetique talk email 01:48, 27 February 2011 (UTC)


I gather from observation and experience that if you want an amendment to MediaWiki:Genres to take effect, you have to put it in in two places - the category hierarchy and the 'big list' - so for the last one "for voice, harp" would have to go into the category hierarchy (in the alphabetical place after the two "for voice, harmonium" ones) Eric 10:33, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for completing the change for me - I do understand that the addition needs to be made to the "big list", and I thought I had double checked but obviously I didn't. It's been awhile since I have needed to add a genre and it was late so I didnt pay close enough attention - thanks for letting me know. Massenetique talk email 15:56, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

I do apologize for the way I put that though- I shouldn't make edits of any kind at 5 in the morning (local). Thanks your way too. Eric 18:23, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Marie Magdeleine

Dear Massenetique, is there any chance to find a full score of Massenet's oratorio "Marie Magdeleine" or perhaps even of orchestral parts. I would so much appreciate to find them, but there seems to be no source for them - do you have better information? Thanks for your reply. --Thomas Gebhardt 09:55, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

My feeling is that it would be nearly impossible to find a full score or parts free of charge. According to there is not a single library in the world that owns a copy of the full score, and it is not among Massenet's works that are published in reprint by Kalmus. The only option would be to rent the score/parts directly from Leduc (in Europe only, Robert King Music is the USA counterpart), who now owns the Heugel catalog - their website indicates it is available, but I imagine it is expensive. Sorry I couldn't be of more help, full scores of Massenet works are not easy to come by, especially ones which are so rarely performed. Are you with a group looking to mount a production? Massenetique talk email 17:34, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Heugel page

Thanks for your message. No problem Massenetique... I work on it... but, due to the massive work you've done before on it, I prefered to have your agreement first.... I will modifiy a lot of things. --Squin 19:38, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Do whatever you feel is necessary - the bulk of the work I did was simply to enter works and their plate numbers, as long as that information is not lost then I see no problem with you making whatever changes you feel would help the clarify Heugel's chronology. And like I said, if you set up the page I would be more than happy to help by re-entering the information that is already compiled. Thanks! Massenetique talk email 20:03, 17 March 2011 (UTC)


...Better watch out, or his grandson will label you as a terrorist! :) Carolus 05:17, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

I must have missed something ... has he threatened imslp for posting Koechlin's works? Massenetique talk email 05:18, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
OK, I see it now in Koechlin's composer page discussion ... I'll watch my back ;) Massenetique talk email 05:23, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
I then made the mistake of trying to explain our purpose in a polite email conversation (which he, not I, initiated, if I remember, though not pleasantly). needless to say, he wasn't having it. sigh. Eric 06:42, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

Indigo und die vierzig Räuber


I wonder if we should get rid of this page instead of making it a redirect as we will no doubt end up with a score of the original "Indigo" at some point in the future. Carolus 03:47, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

I agree. I'll take care of it. Thanks! Massenetique talk email 03:50, 6 April 2011 (UTC)


for the same reason that Beethoven's Hammerklavier sonata is not, I think, tagged sonatas ; scherzos ; adagios ; preludes ; fugues ; pf a set of pieces for piano, unless the pieces' names are in the title or subtitle (like "prelude and fugue for piano") generally I am given to understand anyway, just get tagged pieces ; pf :)... best!!! Eric 06:39, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

I see what you're saying, but I think a set of pieces is different than movements in a sonata ... If I were searching for "berceuses" for example, I would think it would be much better to have the work I just uploaded tagged as such so it would be included in the list. Has this issue been discussed between admins in the past? I think we need a standard... Massenetique talk email 06:44, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

you mean between members of the categorization project?... (admins are an orthogonal group)? far as I know. I do know it's what I've been asked to do. I recommend checking the archives of IMSLP_talk:Categorization/Project_Members - will do so myself when more awake... Eric 07:00, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

The general rule as set out in the guidelines (IIRC) and uniformly followed since the beginning of the project is that a set of works should not be tagged for each individual one, but only for the set as a whole. So, for example, if there's a work called Pieces, Op.42, then it should be tagged as just 'pieces', ignoring any individual designations within. Cheers, KGill talk email 14:10, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

Paraphrases, Illustrations, Bouquets, Potpourris, etc.

Hi Massenetique. Please remember that an arrangement of a work (usually an opera) which forms a kind of rhapsodic fantasy on it rather than transcribing a specified section of it should get its own page under the 'arranger' (think Liszt), with cross-references between it and the page for the original work. (See here for an example.) I think all the Louis Cramer items you uploaded today will have to be farmed out to their own pages in this manner. Thanks, KGill talk email 21:44, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

I really didn't think these works were original enough to qualify for their own page as a Liszt paraphrase would. I have definitely seen similar works uploaded in the same way before (Norma and Werther are such pages which include piano selections on the main page), but it is true I did not go back to the manual of style to clarify. That no one else caught it before I uploaded 100 "bouquets de mélodies" is unfortunate... I'll go back and modify. Massenetique talk email
Well, if you check here, all it says is an arrangement deserves its own page if "the form of the new work is changed from the original"; this really means that almost any bouquet-style piece would by definition get its own page. I honestly don't think it is the no.1 biggest issue with the site right now, though - I wouldn't take it as an urgent cleanup project if I were you. I'll put it on my list of things to work on over the summer :-) KGill talk email 23:07, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Date format for first performances

Hi, Since you're always so good about adding this info, you should know that we're going to the YYYY-MM-DD format to facilitate readability via APIs and the like, as we are starting use the "General Information" section as a means to help integrate with the iPad app and future things of this nature. Performance date also comes into play when determining the status of posthumous publications in Canada and other countries. (Yes, I know, it looks sort of 'computerese'). Carolus 06:29, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Ok, no problem. Can you point me to a page for an example so I can see how exactly this should be formatted? Thanks! Massenetique talk email 06:32, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

You'll see shortly. Carolus 06:33, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Got it. Thanks,Massenetique talk email 06:33, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Merton stuff

Hi, I'm wondering if adding the items to the entry for a Merton file - arranged as it is in the unusual format, will be confusing - with all the instruction and CLICK HERE text. Carolus 03:18, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

I agree but was trying to be consistent as the scans are the same publication... better to make 2 separate entries? Massenetique talk email 03:21, 18 June 2011 (UTC):I'll change Op.102 to match Op.103. Massenetique talk email

Augener scores from Toronto

Thank you for your excellent Lachner Trios from Toronto.

I am in the process of uploading Kreuz Trio for the same combination (va va p) Op 21 from my own scan.

If you find it, possibly in Toronto, I would appreciate your uploading the Kreuz Four duos for violin and viola op 39 1895 and the Trio Facile for v vc p op 31 1893.

Strangely the Merton collection had the two works for v va p but not the op 31 trio.

Regards WB

Le roi de Lahore (Massenet, Jules)

Hi Massenetique. Just wanted to let you know that it looks like you've only actually uploaded one file here - the double entry is actually two copies of the same file. Cheers, KGill talk email 19:14, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Fixed. Thanks for alerting me! Massenetique talk email 19:49, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Translating Russian

Cyrillic/translating Russian- I've found things like the Russian and English Wikipedias, and some other services, occasionally helpful when used cautiously :)! Eric 12:05, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the tip! It hasn't really come up before but now that I've been pulling scores from the Russian State Library, it likely will again! Massenetique talk email 22:01, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

La Marseillaise (Beyer, Ferdinand)

From its cover (which describes it as part of the series- Lee & Walker imprint poss pasted over the original cover, US copyright laws were very odd - weak - for much of the 19th century when it came to European copyright to my very limited knowledge) and HMB and Google-books search, very much seems to be part of a collection of "Vaterlandslieder" originally published by Schott (and possibly others) in the 1860s or earlier - 1849 even, from praise given the series in the NZM - and probably reprinted by Lee & Walker. Probably (most likely) should be moved to Vaterlandslieder (Beyer, Ferdinand). Your thoughts? Eric 12:51, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. I wasn't sure if how I posted it was correct in the first place so I don't have a strong case to keep it where it is. thanks, Massenetique talk email 17:47, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

No worries, one often has to move things around as information improves, i hope I have the right place for it - HMB suggests that Beyer's Marseilleise transcription in the Vaterlandslieder series (which again the cover suggests this was a part of :) ) was released by Schott in 1865 (not nec. its first issue but the first issue I can find mentioned in a simple search.) So will do! Eric 17:56, 27 June 2011 (UTC)


Hi Massenetique. You may have seen the forum topic about a possible shortage of copyright reviewers this fall (I'm not sure if Carolus is taking his yearly month-long vacation in September, and I will not be able to contribute much starting Sept. 3 and essentially continuing until late December). How serious this will actually be is very much up in the air, but in any case, it would be prudent to increase the number of members on the active team. Would you be interested in taking the new test? Thanks, KGill talk email 01:10, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I would be interested. What's the time frame for getting the test completed? Massenetique talk email 01:25, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
There is no required time frame for completion of the test, really - only by the end of the summer ;-) KGill talk email 01:27, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
Ok, great. Send the answers to you by email? Massenetique talk email 01:28, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
Sure. Either to me or to Carolus is fine. KGill talk email 01:30, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

3 Songs, Op.26 (Goossens, Eugene)

Hi Massenetique. I noticed that you listed the piece as having only one plate number, which is understandable since it is the plate number for the piano reduction. However, the parts have separate plate numbers, and even separate publication dates. The piano score was published in 1920, while the parts were published in 1922. Yours respectfully, Emery 03:43, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, well it's probably moot because these files must be removed. Goossens is not PD in Canada. Massenetique talk email 03:45, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Hi again. It doesn't matter if Goossens is PD in Canada in this particular case. The reason is because it's public domain in the US being published before 1923. It should be moved to the US server. I'm not quite sure what the protocol is, however, so I may have done wrong by uploading it in the first place. For some reason I must have assumed Daphnis or someone similar would move it to accordingly. Respectfully, Emery 03:51, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

It absolutely DOES matter that Goossens is not PD in Canada - we have to be very careful not to upload non-PD scores to the main server. Contact Jdeperi for info on how to obtain permission to upload to imslp-us. Massenetique talk email 04:13, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

It was wrong of me to upload, sorry. I thought that I would send a message to Daphnis, who has access to the US server, and ask him if he could possibly upload the files to the US server. It was my intention for the files to remain blocked until that could happen; but again, sorry since that wasn't an appropriate course of action. I didn't realize. Respectfully, Emery 04:32, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

I don't know much about the US server protocol myself but I do know it is always best to be safe rather than sorry. I am new to copyright reviewing (ie. today is my first day on the team!) and I may have been overzealous in deleting the files. If so, I am sorry - I will leave the work page up so that you don't have to reenter that information. Jdeperi seems to be in charge of the US server and in the forums he says that a user can contact him and get a password to access the US server. If you don't want to do that, I'm sure Carolus or Daphnis can let you know how to proceed. Cheers, Massenetique talk email 04:58, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Haydn Opus 9 #2

I noticed that you uploaded scores for the rest of Opus 9, without this quartet. If you could upload a score for Opus 9 #2, that would be great.

I was uploading a collection I found an which split the individual quartets across numerous volumes. Op.9 No.2 was not included in the collection so I do not have it to upload. If I come across another version to upload I will make it a priority to post. Cheers, Massenetique talk email 23:04, 26 July 2011 (UTC)


Hi Massenetique. Before I make a catalog system for Stravinsky, I'd like your opinion on the Sortable list of works by Igor Stravinsky I created earlier this month. Any criticism or questions you might have would be appreciated. Thanks, Lndlewis10 04:53, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

The table looks great to my eyes! The only thing I notice is that you have the Pastoral dated 1933, when it was in fact first published in 1910. Other than that, it sorts well and looks very nice. Bravo! Massenetique talk email 22:08, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
Never mind on the dating issue - I see that he re-arranged the work in 1933 and that you have it dated as 1907 as well. Cheers, Massenetique talk email 22:13, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Haydn Quartets

Massenetique, having got a piece of software for writing scores up to a standard that could be used to create sets of parts for the Haydn quartets, I intended to start type setting the scores that had been posted already + my collection. I see that you have now made such a project largely redundant. No problem, they will be appreciativly used. I note that there are a small number of holes and I wondered if you were planning on filling them, I would hate to spend a lot of time if you were going to do a better job than I could ever do.

In addition, I have a Payne's mini score of Op9/2 as requested above. There is no copyright date or notice. Do you think that would do?

Op47 17:55, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Hi Op47, I had no plans of filling the holes - I generally only post what I find in other online sources and I do very little typesetting and scanning myself. If you are inspired to complete the collection (which would obviously be a great thing) I say go for it! Best, Massenetique talk email 22:04, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Brandus in Russia

I had no idea they were engaged in such extensive publishing activity in St. Petersburg. Very interesting series of uploads from the RSL. Great work. Carolus 02:44, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks! I wish I had some way of gauging publication date accurately but it is proving difficult. Very few libraries own these publications and those that do are no better informed than I. They do not correspond to the standard Brandus plate numbers - and the use of the word "Magasin" I find interesting as well. My first thought was that it indicated a serial publication (ie. magazine) but the word actually indicates a shop or storefront from which these publications must have been sold in St. Petersburg. The extent of the publishing activity was indeed not what I expected either... Massenetique talk email 03:03, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

It looks like they were engraved locally. A comparison with the work of the Paris issues reveals differences in the characters (punches) used. These look more like items issued by Stellovsky and other Russian publishers. One learns something new every day around here... Carolus 03:31, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Featured scores

Thanks for the addition—in the future, just make sure to keep the text of the page above the "</noinclude>" tag to keep it off the main page. Thanks-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 19:02, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Oops, sorry about that! I'll be more careful next time. Massenetique talk email 20:09, 6 August 2011 (UTC)


Why do you think the H. in Labadie stands for Hippolyte? // 2. It is looking likely that actually H. Labadie was yet-another-alias (like H. Alberti) of Wilhelm Popp, unless I miss my guess. Eric 06:36, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

I got Hippolyte from worldcat records of his Sur l'onde. That could certainly be wrong, though, especially since I found little to nothing of Hippolyte anywhere else. I didn't see anything pointing me toward Popp though, either. If you find some compelling evidence to move the works, go ahead by all means.Massenetique talk email 06:40, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
Looked at those worldcat records again -- looks like Popp may have arranged 'Sur l'onde' for piano, which would seem to indicate they are not the same person. It would also indicate that the piece is not originally for piano ... Massenetique talk email 06:45, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

... hrm. ... In general I wouldn't agree- people "arrange" works by their alternate identities as something of a game, if memory serves... - but I do believe you are right here. Anyhow, backtracking, the Worldcat listing is from (very little in Worldcat originates from Worldcat, except, erm, for mistakes. :) ) - from the Zentralbibliothek Zurich, which has one entry for Hippolyte Labadie in their catalog (the orchestral material- 28 parts, Fritsche Plate K.F.6- for Sur l'onde/Meereswogen op25 which however in the body of the entry is still given as "H. Labadie" suggesting- more than suggesting- that on the music itself it is still H. Labadie, and that "Hippolyte" is a librarian/editorial intervention. The mystery deepens unfortunately. There are several- not very many - appearances of "H. Labadie" in Google Books, just about none of Hippolyte Labadie anywhere I can find offhand, making me wonder if my search is just not flexible enough or - well, something... perhaps "up wrong tree, barking"! Eric 13:25, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

No coincidence...

I saw yours and thought, always good to be able to augment a category (esp. a new category) a bit :) Eric 02:22, 16 August 2011 (UTC) (that said, I'm not absolutely 100% positive about the identification of the work I put in there- the score says Ave Maria and Allegro, which doesn't quite match anything I see in Fessy's worklist- conceivably it's even a work of a relative of his - but I am assuming it's his opus 10 as mentioned in HMB and Worldcat, which seems a very close match. Alas even years after hearing Schubert's Serenade for the first time I don't recognize it well enough to know if it's what Fessy's Allegro is based on!)

Krüger, Vaga Luna

Dear Massenetique, just to let you know that I changed the tag on this. The "melodies" tag is only used for French vocal works. When instrumental pieces have titles or subtitles that are "melodies", they get tagged "pieces". Steltz 20:36, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

over redirect

the opus number applies to the -entire- Reissiger opera die Felsenmühle op71 : this from a contemporary (1831) issue of AMZ which sold a piano reduction of the entire opera with opus number attached, not just the overture. Eric 11:33, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Many apologies for that. I did have reasons for the first redirect but did not explain it at the time. (At least one source I can find is AMZ, Nov 1831, page 39. As a rule I do prefer contemporary sources- where relevant and possible- over modern sources (even Grove) but "relevant and possible" are not always both true; e.g. Mozart's two sets of early violin sonatas I agree should not still be (both) referred to as Opus 1 as they were when published...) Eric 12:16, 31 August 2011 (UTC)