User talk:Schissel/archive8

User talk:Schissel


Internet Culturale manuscripts

If you want to have a publication date, I would recommend using the year date the item in question first appeared at IC since that would qualify as first publication in some countries. On second thought, it's probably best to leave the field in the General Info section blank since there's the whole performance question under Canada and other copyright laws. Not sure how - or if - the EU applies editio princeps to libraries and archives. Carolus 00:33, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

Red links

Hi Eric,

your edits on the Havergal Brian worklist puzzled me at first! Thanks for the bio. info on Hadath, but the link should point to the name as given by the authorities, which in his case lacks the forenames John Edward – to display the full name while pointing to a different potential page would require the other LinkCompS template, and I was careful to have the links do that.
There are quite a number of red links on the page (for publishers, in addition to writers!) but I see no problem with this, as there’s no reason in principle why any of the links shouldn’t be left to point to a page which will be added in the future – I added more than a few poets such as Nashe, Herrick, Pope, Blake, Scott, Keats, Emerson, Tennyson and Yeats in order to reduce the quotient of red links, and as more of these sorts of personages are added the remainder should gradually disappear also!

What was it of mine that you’d read at Any chance of borrowing some of the orchestral scores for putting on IMSLP·US? Cheers Philip @ © talk 06:50, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Ashdown & Parry

I know we've not yet done a publisher page, but the basic outline is that the publisher was known as Ashdown & Parry until 1884, at which point it was known as Edwin Ashdown (Parry having left the business). Ashdown was in turn absorbed by someone else in the 20th century. So, the stuff you see with "A. & P. No." plate numbers was all most likely originally issued before 1884 (even though the particular copy scanned may have been printed much later). Carolus 02:27, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

Lyapunov: Ballade, Op.2

I rather doubt that "buymeagoat" was the original scanner for this, but Sibley. So I copied the Sibley handle from your now-departed upload. At least this way it will be listed in the Sibley category so as to avoid future duplication. Carolus 04:14, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

Google Books vs. vs. IMSLP

Hi Eric. I had two reasons for changing the biography links for Celebrated Organists of America from Google Books to the link. First, that particular book wasn't available on until I posted it there a few days ago so my original biography links were to the only available source-Google Books. Secondly, it's my understanding that Google doesn't make Google Books, or at least all of Google Books, available worldwide. I don't believe has a similar restrictive policy so, hopefully, anyone clicking the biography link will actually get to the biography and not some message from Google that the resource isn't available to them. As for directing biography links to the collective biographies that are posted on IMSLP (Baker's and Grove for now) I personally think it more beneficial to both the user and to IMSLP that they be directed to or Google Books. With both sites you can link directly to the page containing the composer's biography which means less work and immediate gratification for the user. If we were to link to Baker's or Grove on IMSLP and give the user the page number then the user must download a 40 to 60mb file (using IMSLP's bandwidth) to read the biography. I'm all in favor of uploading such sources to IMSLP. In fact, it's easier to identify the editions of Grove or Baker's on IMSLP than it is on or Google Books. On a related note I've uploaded to C.F. Whistling's Ergänzungsband zum Handbuch der musickalischen Literatur (1829) that I converted to black and white, deskewed, etc. from BSB. At some point I'll upload it here. Also, I hope to upload at some point in the future a converted version of the 1828 Handbuch but as it is over 1100 pages it will take some time to process. Thanks! --Cypressdome 04:58, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

I think Cypressdome is correct about Google's restrictions. I find that's page-turner is easier to use anyway. also doesn't make you deal with captchas every other time you download something to add here - which is yet another reason to favor them in my book (for whatever it's worth). BTW, I was going to tell you aboout my little {{NoPubID|date}} template, but I see you're already using it! It helps to keep a list of pages where we have items lacking publisher info, which is always a help. Carolus 03:31, 10 April 2011 (UTC)


This issue came up when P.davydov was first doing the page-layout hierarchy. Even if the arrangement was issued at the same time and was done by the composer, it still goes under the arrangements section. Of course it can get very difficult to determine which is actually the original version in some cases like the Smith piece. (Percy Grainger's stuff, which we start uploading in July or so, will really have some headaches in this regard). In the case of the Smith item, the piano solo has the lower plate number, so it's likely that it was at least assigned to an engraver first. Some info may surface later that proves Smith made the 4-hand version first naturally. Carolus 05:46, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

Using links in the Publication Date field

This could create a problem if it's a case where the piece was first published after 1922, or where the composer is PD in USA only. This is because the auto-tagger reads the dates placed in that field. It's probably fine for the obviously PD composers, and it's always a great thing to have the link. Just have to watch out. I've had to change some in the cases where the date in that field was being read as it was giving bizarre auto-tags for copyright status. Yes, the Carl Faust item you just added seems to have no problems, so the issue only comes into play with items published after 1922, perhaps with composers who died less than 70 years ago. Carolus 04:27, 13 April 2011 (UTC)


Hi Eric. I may be reading that page wrong but it looks to me like those pdfs are for the catalog of the Ducal Court and State Library of Friedrich Karl Forberg and sadly not the catalog for the publisher Robert Forberg. Nice job on the Hainauer page by the way. I've uploaded their 1870 catalog supplement here. PML set up the framework for the Publishers' Catalogs page under the Various category and we're accumulating rather nice collection. --Cypressdome 01:00, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

n.d. vs. (yyyy)

Hi Eric. My understanding from Carolus back when I posted some items from that had originated from a commercial scanner who wipes all publication information off of scores was that we should use n.d. when there was no date imprinted on the original (meaning the original paper copy printed by the publisher not the "original" scanned copy) and to use parentheses for either estimated dates (perhaps with ca.) or dates confirmed from other sources (Worldcat, Hofmeister, etc). That's what I did here, here, and here. Every now and then I see brackets being used. I suppose that's in place of parentheses. Thanks! --Cypressdome 02:53, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

You can use the YYYY date if the item included it as originally printed - even if a later reprinter like Kalmus or CDSM got rid of it (a most annoying practice). Most things first issued outside the USA had no date printed on them until after 1891 - though there were a couple of notable exceptions like Simrock (starting in the 1870s or so), Rieter-Biedermann, and Belaieff. Oddly, after WWI Belaieff actually dropped the dates when they reprinted things. It was extremely rare for a US publisher to not have a date as part of the copyright claim as it was a required element legally. One does see it from now and again, though. Curiously, the really old scores (from the 1500s through the mid-1700s) are actually more likely to have a year-date printed on them. On some Russian scores, you will find a censor's date - often in the middle of the score! Carolus 03:08, 15 April 2011 (UTC)


It wasn't used until 1904 by music publishers even though 1893 is the year the Imperial German government established a nationwide corporate law of limited liability. GmbH is basically the equivalent of "Ltd." in the UK or "Inc." in the USA. It's a helpful tool for dating particular copies - even if they're mere reissues of earlier things. I think that B & B page was named GmbH way back in the early days. Maybe we should move it to plain old Bote & Bock. Carolus 02:59, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Wordcat dates

Hi Eric. I hadn't thought about that regarding dates found in entries in Worldcat but it certainly makes sense. Don't we run into a similar situation occasionally with some dates from Sibley? I seem to recall some instances in which they know the probable decade of publication so it appears in their records as YYY0 which looks like a certainty when of course they really mean YYY0s or ca.YYY0. Wish I had an answer or some great insight but all I can do is plug in the best date from the information currently available and let future editors correct errors when better information becomes available. You've probably noticed that in the case of the Schirmer table that the four years on either side of 1900 seem to be a mess. I'm convinced this has something to do with the release during those years of Schirmer's Library of Musical Classics which apparently numbered many hundreds of volumes. Anyway, I'm slowing making my way through that table and will go back and try to confirm dates for those "un-linked" items. Signing off for the night as my hand hurts too much to do any real work. Thanks, --Cypressdome 04:19, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Another PD-US score

Good evening Eric! I was wondering if you wouldn't mind uploading at your convenience a PD-US score that I've reformatted from the original jpg2000 files posted on It's Zemlinsky's Der Zwerg. The files can be found here. The librettist died in 1962 so I guess it won't be allowed on the Canadian server until 1/1/13(?). There's also a text file that includes some of the relevant posting information. Many thanks! --Cypressdome 04:05, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Once again many thanks for posting this! --Cypressdome 19:20, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Our unfortunate situation

You might want to go very slow on the uploads over the next ten days or so. The freezing of our regular domain name makes copyright tagging more cumbersome (not impossible, just slower due to links not working as they normally do). Carolus 04:15, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Correctly linking to scores on the US server

Hi Eric,

This is Jonathan DePeri, the IMSLP-US server admin ( I noticed you had added some scores with incorrect links and just wanted to point it out to you. Once I figure out how to do a full-text search, I'll see if I can correct any similarly-wrong links containing the same mistakes. See my modifications to the page,_Alessandro%29 for exactly what I changed. (You included parts of the URL that the template handles itself; if you generate your links using my easy-to-use form described at, you won't be able to introduce such a mistake.)